deskthority

Hello guys,

This is my first post to the forum.

I just bought a Magicforce 68 key with Cherry MX Browns and I noticed something immediately after using the keyboard for a few minutes - that the right arrow key felt pingy and different to the other keys.

Anyway, after removing the keycap I noticed that the font on the key switch housing was different to the other keys.


I can post a picture if you guys like but I am wondering about what I should do regarding this - if Cherry uses different housings and different feeling Brown keys across the same board.

Thanks.

Looks like it's both your first and second! keyboards-f2/magicforce-68-key-fake-che ... ml#p323412

Post a picture. I don't think the Magicforce boards use genuine Cherry switches at all, but we can tell you what's up if you show us both switch types.

Hello,

This is the image - image upload

Different batches? I have a magicforce 68 that I used for a while, and then gave to my daughter with Cherry MX Browns. I didn't notice anything about the feel of them.

chuckdee wrote: Different batches? I have a magicforce 68 that I used for a while, and then gave to my daughter with Cherry MX Browns. I didn't notice anything about the feel of them.

A couple of the keys on this board feel different.

Also I have had a board with MX Blues and I have never seen this font used on the housing - not a huge deal but obviously if you pay for genuine you want genuine.

in particular the forward slash key feels really stiff

If you have any further information I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks

AFAIK both are original Cherry. Just different "batches" (i.e. different production "age").

See here for some possible logo fonts: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38921.0

E.g.

I have never seen genuine Cherry MX switches with that kind of top shell. The left switches look legit but the right one looks VERY ODD to me. Might be I haven't seen the VERY latest batch of MX Browns but I have seen all ages of Cherry MX and never has any Cherry logo looked like that. Very disturbing!

If it's that noticeable I would just return it to the vendor.

I had 2 or 3 switches with the same font in my whitefox kit, but they didn't feel any different from the rest... Weird!

I also have never seen this type of Cherry Logo before.

Thanks for the replies - only just checked this thread as it was a bit inactive. In short - I returned the keyboard - for a number of different reasons - I may just opt for a cheaper outemu version in the future. Perhaps gateron browns - anyone used them before?

They're not bad, but not too similar to MX Browns, if you're expecting that.

Gaterons are labeled clones but sound and feel very different to Cherry. While the stems are smoother, and the tactile bump is bigger which most people find agreeable, some dislike the sound and the tactile feel of Gaterons overall, even though "smoother more tactile MX Brown" sounds pretty great in theory.

After trying 2-3 Gateron switch types I will stick to Cherry MX but YMMV.

Clear Gat =/= Clear MX. Not even close. I was quite disappointed in my choice to get them.

Brown Gat ~ Brown MX. Not quite, but close enough that I still take them sometimes.

shreebles wrote: They're not bad, but not too similar to MX Browns, if you're expecting that.

Gaterons are labeled clones but sound and feel very different to Cherry. While the stems are smoother, and the tactile bump is bigger which most people find agreeable, some dislike the sound and the tactile feel of Gaterons overall, even though "smoother more tactile MX Brown" sounds pretty great in theory.

After trying 2-3 Gateron switch types I will stick to Cherry MX but YMMV.

I will definitely second this. Gateron is 'Cherry compatible,' not a clone. (Kailh is a clone because they try to duplicate all aspects.) There's also two families of Gaterons; KS-1 and KS-3. KS-3 is clear top and very different from KS-1 (opaque/black.) Like Cherry, their primary products are a variety of in-house designed electronic and electromechanical switches and contract manufactured switches.

Personally I've found that I prefer Gateron clicky by far and away; they're more consistent in quality and tone than Cherry. That may be simply due to their tooling being newer, or the difference in materials, or a better design. But they are definitely different. And no matter what anyone claims, switches are extremely subjective.

And honestly? The switches pictured - the one on the right specifically? Absolutely, without a question counterfeit. And they probably ALL are counterfeits. Not clones, but illegal counterfeits. These started showing up on AliExpress about a week or two ago. Here's the Cherry Electronics GmbH blog about it. Want to guess which manufacturer immediately got tagged up as prime suspect number one based on the stem color and composition? Yup, Kailh, who was making illegal clones even before the patent expired.

Well their blogpost is about fake stems in original Cherry housings. Which is something different than the OP reported.

As for the ones in this thread, yes, we are quick to suspect fakes on a less reputable manufacturer such as Magicforce.
But I have seen a batch of those same switches in my Whitefox set. This would mean that Massdrop actually dealed in fake Cherry switches as well... With much bigger implications and a lot more people affected.

shreebles wrote: Well their blogpost is about fake stems in original Cherry housings. Which is something different than the OP reported.

As for the ones in this thread, yes, we are quick to suspect fakes on a less reputable manufacturer such as Magicforce.
But I have seen a batch of those same switches in my Whitefox set. This would mean that Massdrop actually dealed in fake Cherry switches as well... With much bigger implications and a lot more people affected.

Having been involved in computers and electronics a very long time, trust me, counterfeits come in a large variety of forms. As Cherry themselves stated, some of the counterfeits appeared to be using recycled genuine Cherry top housings. And of course, they are not going to necessarily publish a definitive list of spotted counterfeits publicly. That could affect future legal proceedings.

And the fact is, unless you bought the switches direct from Cherry and picked them up yourself, they very well could be counterfeits once you hit the market. Doesn't matter how "reputable" the source is. I've gotten counterfeits from very reputable shops like Mouser, Digikey, etcetera. They're supply chain endpoints; they buy in bulk from various distributors around the world along with direct from manufacturers. Disreputable factories will slip in known counterfeits made elsewhere, same for distributors - sometimes the whole shipment, sometimes part of it.
And because there's two types of counterfeits in play here - stolen top housing counterfeits and fake top housing counterfeits - it's even harder to detect. If 100 switches out of a 1,000 switch crate are fakes, you're not going to know till they reach the end user. Counterfeit electronics have been a very real, very big problem for a very long time.
For Kailh or Gateron or Oetemu or Greetech to produce counterfeit switches requires only replacing the top housing mold. That's it. Just slap a 'Cherry' logo on it and they can charge a LOT more. Especially since there's global shortages of certain switch types. Crank out a batch of those, instant cash. Especially for Kailh and Greetech, where it means the sale price literally doubles just by slapping the Cherry name on it.

Everyone jumped on Kailh because they're known counterfeiters. Problem is, Kailh went legit and doesn't have the capacity for counterfeits due to Razer. Plus the cover is wrong; Kailh's is simplified substantially. That letter A on the counterfeit gives it away very clearly though; Greetech is likely the manufacturer making counterfeits. Proof? Greetech marks their top housings with a letter and has a distinctive bump to the right of the LED. It could be they sold tooling as scrap and someone else is doing it, but that's got to be a Greetech mold producing a fake Cherry logo.

Makes a lot of sense the way you explained it. I should check for those little letter and bumps next time.

The problem seems much bigger than I imagined. Fakes from Mouser... Massdrop should be no exception. What about 7bit

Their blogpost was also referring specifically to Cherry Yellows. Not saying that it's not the case, but just that the Cherry post was referring to a specific problem.

There are and have been quite a few MX clones in the past, call them fakes or copys or whatever. I agree that top case housing on the right looks fishy. I'm pretty sure Cherry does not use variations except the for the changes they made to MX's themselfs of the years there should be no variations.

wiki/Cherry_MX

seebart wrote: There are and have been quite a few MX clones in the past, call them fakes or copys or whatever. I agree that top case housing on the right looks fishy. I'm pretty sure Cherry does not use variations except the for the changes they made to MX's themselfs of the years there should be no variations.

wiki/Cherry_MX

Yeah I totally agree with the fact that the top housing looked fishy. it also felt different which prompted me to remove the keycap - I knew immediately that this was not a normal cherry top housing.

chuckdee wrote: Their blogpost was also referring specifically to Cherry Yellows. Not saying that it's not the case, but just that the Cherry post was referring to a specific problem.

Read the other blog I linked. Manufacturers do NOT publicly go into detail on other known counterfeits for a whole variety of reasons. Cherry knows full well there are fakes out there. But the Yellows they posted about because it's patently obvious those are not legitimate parts and never have been. The stems on them look very much to be Kailh's known junk yellows. But Cherry's not going to publicize the existence of counterfeit browns or blues, even when they know they are in the wild.

People talk a whole lot about clones, but there's a key difference. A proper "clone" is exactly that; a switch from another manufacturer that mimics or copies Cherry but is branded as that different manufacturer. A counterfeit is something that falsely claims to be from a different manufacturer. e.g. if Cherry decided to make Kailh's Razer junk for whatever reason, that would be a clone. If they slapped the 'Razer' logo on it, then it becomes counterfeit.

shreebles wrote: The problem seems much bigger than I imagined. Fakes from Mouser... Massdrop should be no exception. What about 7bit

I should clarify; I haven't seen any fake Cherry switches from Mouser, but I haven't ordered any either. Most sellers VERY quickly (and quietly) pull parts batches identified as counterfeit. But literally any seller can fall prey to it. There's a local house that got a batch of counterfeit LEDs. They were very quick to replace them and pull the fakes. That house was an authorized distributor for the company.
There's so many ways that they can get into the supply chain, it's literally unavoidable if someone is looking to make a buck with fakes. Counterfeiting is an epidemic in audio products, and especially transistors. There are literally entire factories in China and India dedicated to producing nothing but counterfeited parts, sometimes on a scale that exceeds the genuine article. And they can be very, very good at not only making it look genuine but suckering you into buying them.