Matias Switches and Hybrids

[Hypersphere]

What do you think of Matias switches? These could be Matias Click, Matias Quiet, or Matias Quiet Linear switches in keyboards made by Matias, KBP, other vendors, or custom-built keyboards.

It seems that the prevailing opinion is that Matias switches are inferior to SKCM/SKCL Alps switches. However, after spending the past several weeks using Alps-switch keyboards, today I put my 3-year-old KBP V60MTS-C back into service (I am typing on it now), and I had forgotten how much I like this keyboard and its switches. Matias Clicks may be noisy and wobbly, but there is no trace of binding as you sometimes find with white Alps. My typing speed and accuracy are also better on my V60MTS-C than on many of my other keyboards.

Although I do like typing on Matias switches, and I appreciate the fact that they are available off-the-shelf in a 60% form-factor keyboard, I am still interested in modding the switches to make them more refined. The slider, return spring, and click leaf are exchangeable with corresponding parts from at least some Alps switches.

Thoughts?

[drevyek]

I'm not home, so I can't confirm myself, but I think that the leaves in Matias are slightly different in size to that of SKCM. I remember when messing around with creams and QC's that the leaves weren't fully interchangeable. I can't remember which was had the too-large leaf though.

The QC Matias leaves are also held in the switch better- doing click mods doesn't make them click as well as it did in the creams, not by half. You can actually get away with half-click-modding them, and get a consistent feel and sound. Plus, you don't get the same problem of loose leaves after fiddling with them.

I've only tried QC's, and I find them OK. The extended bumper design ( versus the recessed bumpers + pinions design of creams) makes their end stroke a bit mush, but only if you hammer it. However, it's a lot cheaper to do it like that, as you don't need a different switch case design for the damped versions.

[Hypersphere]

Here is my latest Matias hybrid -- Matias Click housing with slider, spring, and click leaf from Blue Alps. I'm provisionally calling it the "MatiaBlue" switch.

Here is a KBP V60 with the hybrid switch:

MatiaBlue_1.jpg (181.6 KiB) Viewed 4031 times

V60MTS2.jpg (918.35 KiB) Viewed 4031 times

The spacebar has a slider from a Matias Quiet switch.

Here is an audio waveform of a KBP V60 with standard Matias Click switches:

V60MTS-Click_Aud_waveform.JPG (29.88 KiB) Viewed 4031 times

And a waveform of a KBP V60 with the hybrid MatiaBlue switches:

V60-MatiaBlue_waveform.JPG (26.17 KiB) Viewed 4031 times

And here is a video showing the two keyboards along with audio clips recorded under the same exact conditions.

The keystrokes are: -09 poi lkj .,m Backpace x 3 Return x 3 Space x 3

Both keyboards have the same keycaps and cases (dye-sub PBT alphas from IBM 5140 keyboards, blank black ABS mods and spacebar from Matias, stock KBP V60 case).

V60MTS3.jpg (902.49 KiB) Viewed 4031 times

[drevyek]

A bit hard to hear the action of the switch over the bottoming out, unfortunately (though that *is* real-life-conditions). But the MatiaBlues seem much deeper. How do they feel? Is there a difference in using the blue vs Click sliders alone, outside of the leaf variation? If possible, could you post a photo showing the blue, click and a SKCM White slider side-by-side, if you have them, to show the differences?

I'd be very interested if there is actually a difference between them, and if they *themselves* make for a difference in sound and keyfeel.

On another note, holy hell, I love those caps. They look great with the pitch black Matias mods (too bad Matias doesn't do PBT...)

A look at the variation in force curve between the switches would also be interesting-- how much does the switchplate differences make for a change in force? How does it change the keyfeel? That would be to use the same weight springs, same tactile leaves, and same sliders, but one using the blue casing, and the other using the Matias casing.

[Hypersphere]

Yes, I have a heavy hand on the keyboard. I tend to bottom out every keystroke. However, after using the hybrid-switch keyboard for a while, I seem to have developed a lighter touch, perhaps as an adaptation to the lighter feel of the switches.

There certainly are many variables to consider with Alps and Matias switches!

The IBM keycaps are beautiful. It also turns out that the red Esc keycaps from SP look fine on the V60 with the IBM and Matias caps. The difference in profile is not really noticeable, at least to me.

v60esc2.jpg (298.01 KiB) Viewed 3953 times

I will see if I can round up some of the components and post side-by-side photos. Keep in mind, however, that even if some of the corresponding parts of Matias and Blue Alps switches appear to be the same, they could still differ in composition.

BTW, I am thinking of a new name for the Matias / Blue Alps hybrid switch: "Matiblu" (inspired by "Malibu").

[Hypersphere]

Here is a potato pic of the top housing, click leaf, slider, and return spring from a Matias Click (left) and Blue Alps (right) shown side by side. The reflectance is off -- the springs and click leaves should look silver-colored rather than gold-colored, and there is a speck of dust on the Blue slider.

z3.jpg (119.8 KiB) Viewed 3923 times

From my own visual inspection of the actual components, the click leaves appear to have the same dimensions. Likewise, the sliders have the same dimensions, but the Matias Click slider has cutouts on both sides, whereas the Blue slider has a cutout on only one side -- the side facing the switchplate. The return spring in the Matias is also longer than the return spring in the Blue Alps. The main differences are in the housings and especially (not shown here) in the switchplate mechanisms. It is the switchplate that got simplfied in the simplified Alps and Matias switches.

So, the Matiblu hybrid is different from an unmodified Matias Click switch, but it is also different from a Blue Alps switch. The Matiblu is quieter and lighter than a Matias Click switch and has less wobble, but it is not a Blue Alps switch.

[zslane]

It also turns out that the red Esc keycaps from SP look fine on the V60 with the IBM and Matias caps. The difference in profile is not really noticeable, at least to me.

I did the same thing on my V60 mini. I added a red/white ESC key from SP to my Tai Hao Dolch keyset and it looks fine. It's a little odd if you examine it closely though; the bottom of the keycap doesn't extend as far down as the Dolch keys and the top rests just a touch higher than the Dolch keys. But overall it works fine and isn't noticeable when typing or only casually looking at it.

[Hypersphere]

@zslane: I didn't think you ever looked casually at anything!

In any event, it's nice to know that we can each make use of our SP red Esc keycaps!

[zslane]

Looking casually is the only way I can stand to look at cylindrical keycaps.

[Hypersphere]

Mathematically, it is straightforward to do cylindrical to spherical transformations, and this can be extended to optics. So, you might be able to get special glasses that will make cylindrical caps look spherical. Alternatively, recent advances in cloaking technology might enable you to make cylindrical caps invisible.

UPDATE: The more I use the V60 with the Matiblu hybrids, the more I like it. At first, the switches seemed too light, but after adjusting to a lighter touch, I appreciate the feel and the quieter sound compared to the Matias Click switches.

I suspect that just about the same effect could be achieved with a white Alps/Matias hybrid (slider, spring, and click leaf from White Alps) in the housing of Matias Click).