deskthority

Thanks for the tips Hypersphere! I think your procedure is best without desoldering. I have a desoldering station now so I always assume that cleaning switches means desoldering them first. This isn't strictly necessary for Alps but if I'm going to go through that much trouble to open the switches I may as well just pull all of them.

As for key caps, I have a set of PBT dye subs from a Dell AT101 board that will probably find their home on my Omnikey when it is done. Apart from the off center Caps Lock switch I think they are totally compatible.

Chyros - good luck on your thesis!

@XMIT: You're welcome. One of these days I need to take the plunge into molten metal and overcome my desoldering phobia. No doubt being well set up with proper tools, such as a desoldering station, would help enormously.

My Dell 101 Old Logo board was not quite old enough to have dye-sub PBT caps, but they have a nice texture and excellent printing. They also have not yellowed much at all. It seems there was a time when Dell was using mystery caps of some sort that had many characteristics of dye-sub PBT, yet they were not.

@Chyros: We always enjoy your reviews and comments, but you should completely disappear for a while and finish your thesis. Then you can reemerge as Dr. Chyros!

Hypersphere wrote: ↑
One of these days I need to take the plunge into molten metal and overcome my desoldering phobia.

I have far less trepidation about soldering/de-soldering than I do about opening up and re-assembling Alps switches.

That said, I have gotten into a few tar babies: some substantial proportion (~1/3+) of AT101s have an inordinate number of pins bent over, sometimes all of them, and this makes it much harder and more tedious to remove the originals. Once off, assuming that you do not bend over your replacements, it is clear sailing from there on out.

Also, it has been my experience that Northgate solder pads are far more fragile and more likely to be pulled off or otherwise damaged than those on most other PCBs.

Hypersphere wrote: ↑@XMIT: You're welcome. One of these days I need to take the plunge into molten metal and overcome my desoldering phobia. No doubt being well set up with proper tools, such as a desoldering station, would help enormously.

My Dell 101 Old Logo board was not quite old enough to have dye-sub PBT caps, but they have a nice texture and excellent printing. They also have not yellowed much at all. It seems there was a time when Dell was using mystery caps of some sort that had many characteristics of dye-sub PBT, yet they were not.

If you can do a PhD in chemistry, doing soldering work is a doddle, mate, you'll be fine . I think when you do it you'd be surprised at how damn easy it actually is .

@Chyros: We always enjoy your reviews and comments, but you should completely disappear for a while and finish your thesis. Then you can reemerge as Dr. Chyros!

Thanks! I still have a few videos kicking around, though .

fohat wrote: ↑That said, I have gotten into a few tar babies: some substantial proportion (~1/3+) of AT101s have an inordinate number of pins bent over, sometimes all of them, and this makes it much harder and more tedious to remove the originals. Once off, assuming that you do not bend over your replacements, it is clear sailing from there on out.

This is my least favorite part of pulling apart Alps boards for sure.

With my ZD-985 desoldering station at about 650 F with the medium sized tip, I will: heat the back side of the bent over pin to get a little pool of solder, and then, while retaining contact with the pin, move the tip of the desoldering gun over the pin, gently bend it upright, and finally pull the solder. Basically, bend the pin with the solder melted to eliminate any strain and prevent board damage. It takes a little practice but it works great.

For soldering, I recommend the Weller WES51 with the default tip. I use a fine tip for surface mount work but that's uncommon with older boards.

fohat wrote: ↑Also, it has been my experience that Northgate solder pads are far more fragile and more likely to be pulled off or otherwise damaged than those on most other PCBs.

Yuck, thanks for the heads-up. I'll be careful.

Damn, I may need to get that cleaner, my SKCM Blues and Greens off Taobao are in amazingly bad shape, even after a thorough cleaning and lubing. Especially the SKCL Green top housings. Have tried denture tabs and vinegar soaks on those top housings with overall minor improvements.

The thing though is that the value of the 101 Blues and 130 Greens are worth more than that $90 machine sooo I may get one at some point

Before Ultrasonic:


After Ultrasonic:

Lick the cat ... thanks for more experiments bros. I will hopefully soon desolder fifteen metric shittons of Alps and clean them all to perfection ... will share pics and maybe even a video.

Wow Mattr567, impressive results.

seebart wrote: ↑Wow Mattr567, impressive results.

Thanks

Every time I post those picture's of them in the original state I got them in I always get comment's in horror of how bad they were I think these might just be the worst condition Alps switches ever documented. Thanks China!

They were bad enough where dirt was glued onto the surface of the slider and some were stuck down by the account of grime alone. Nothing was mechanically wrong with the switches.

Nice. Did you use the same solution and ultrasonic cleaner as XMIT? Did you lube the switches after the bath? Are they back to 100% now?

As a reminder, my cleaner solution is not very scientific: I use dishwasher soap and denture tabs. It seems to work really well.

Chyros wrote: ↑Damn. Looks like I might need to give this a try. I've got plenty of comparison material xD .

I've had to halt my QKT video series for the moment due to extreme demands on my time with regards to my thesis, but I'll be picking this up again in the future. I want to do another Alps switch restoration video as well. Hopefully you guys will continue to gain more ground in this process so that when I do the video we'll have a consistently working, detailed protocol handy, with a specific cleaning procedure, optimal lubricant, etc.

Has anyone done this with first-gen Alps btw? I suspect this procedure would interfere with the lubricant already present on them. It may even be necessary to wipe the lubricant off completely.

I'll be waiting for that video. I'll talk to some of my contacts and see if there is a place where I can get access to a ultrasonic cleaner. Also, forgive my noobish question, how much can alps switches be disassembled without desoldering the switch from the pcb?

Has anyone tried applying a dry lube to the switches? I was thinking of putting something like MoS2 as a dry lubricant.

I've always wanted to try doing this, however I never had the time to do so.

@XMIT: When you say, "diswasher soap", do you mean something like the liquid dish washing detergent such as "Joy" that you would use for washing dishes by hand, or are you talking about the detergent that is used in dishwasher machines?

@pacific.jr: Without desoldering Alps switches, you can easily remove the top housing, slider, return spring, and click/tactile leaf. Linear Alps switches do not have a click or tactile leaf. It is also possible to remove the contact leaf from the switch plate, but I usually leave this alone. The bottom housing and switch plate remain soldered in place.

Hypersphere wrote: ↑@XMIT: When you say, "diswasher soap", do you mean something like the liquid dish washing detergent such as "Joy" that you would use for washing dishes by hand, or are you talking about the detergent that is used in dishwasher machines?

The latter. I'm happy with this stuff:

http://www.seventhgeneration.com/dishwasher-gel?v=50

Just surfactants. No sudsing agents... or colors or perfumes.

So I had to deal with very sticky salmon and gritty orange Alps. I disassembled them down to the switchplates and put everything through the ultrasonic cleaner. I rinsed the parts in water for the soap and later alcohol to get them to dry better.
For the sticky ones everything went into the cleaner, with the much better looking orange Alps just slider and housing.

Since they seem to cope so bad with dirt I chose a dry lube in the hopes of giving them a bit more longevity.
I sprayed them with PTFE spray while shaking them around in a ziploc bag. The assembled switches feel fine to me now, the spray dried and left a slippery white residue.

I know they feel much better now than when I got them, but unfortunately I can't compare them to really new ones. I might be able to get a better opinion on them if I make it to a meetup again.

It's really worth a shot. The oranges even looked so bad that I thought the plastic itself might be damaged at the sliders, but it was just a lot of dry gunk that stuck to the surface and came off fine.