Gaterons

[sshisui]

it seems you prefer the gaterons instead of the cherry. for how long are you using them ?

[rootwyrm]

https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gateron-switches

I just got my 240 greens, and they are definitely superior in both consistency and quality to Cherry greens. Haven't installed them yet. Don't need to to tell you that though. They are absolutely consistent and all click, and Cherry can't even manage THAT on the Greens.

And it's 120 switches for $25!

[vvp]

Brown Gaterons in use for about a year. No issue so far.

[sshisui]

@rootwyrm: have you tried the blue ones ?
@vvp: thanks, aside from the first impression, sound, feel i wanted to have a feedback on the reliability since i hate to buy something that doesn't work after few time. how much do you use that keyboard ?

[rootwyrm]

@rootwyrm: have you tried the blue ones ?

No, but I would expect them to be no different from greens at least in terms of quality and consistency. All that's required to make a green a blue is swapping the spring (stem's cosmetic).
Cherry blues I've had issues identical to the issues with greens, across multiple boards. I can only guess their tooling is exhausted or the demand is exceeding their QC capability.

[vvp]

@sshisui: The keyboard with Gateron Browns (K80CS v0.7) is used by KKO about 8 hours every working day for software development.

I checked with KKO and it is not used daily for whole year but definitely more than half a year. He has another K80CS (with Cherry MX Black) more than a year. The Cherry board was his primary board in past. Now, the Gateron board is his primary board and the Cherry one is used only rarely during evenings.

[Wodan]

... least in terms of quality and consistency. ...

There's no debate about the crap QC and consistency of Gateron.

Of five Gateron keyboards that I either built or bought, I got three totally different looking switches (milky,, clear top, full clear ...) and two out of these five keyboards gave me general issues with the Gateron switches due to design/manufacturing defects. The first batch of milky switches bad top shell cutouts and would repeatedly get keys stuck on the downstroke. Replaced all key tops with harvested Cherry MX tops.

Then a just recently got my assembled KC60 with Gaterons and Gateron is now making switches with a wider rim on the bottom shell that collides with certain Costar stabs. Had to cut down all the stabilized key switches!

http://imgur.com/a/bmy0B

Never had ANY of these issues with Cherry MX switches. Brand new ones and vintage ones ... you might not appreciate the feeling of the recent Cherry batches but I have never had issues with them at all.

On the other hand, I haven't been into Gateron switches for more than a year and already got three different types of switches from them. There is no consistency, you buy "Gateron" switches somewhere and have no clue what you are getting. I'm really past the hype and increasingly annoyed by their design policy. And I'm not talking about HIGHLY subjective aspects like key feel, the issues I had with Gaterons so far are documented and backed by other people's experience. Check out the discussion page here:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/kc60-mecha ... guest_open

[sshisui]

@wodan: so you would suggest to buy a MX green version instead of the Gateron Blue ?

[rootwyrm]

... least in terms of quality and consistency. ...

There's no debate about the crap QC and consistency of Gateron.

Of five Gateron keyboards that I either built or bought, I got three totally different looking switches (milky,, clear top, full clear ...) and two out of these five keyboards gave me general issues with the Gateron switches due to design/manufacturing defects. The first batch of milky switches bad top shell cutouts and would repeatedly get keys stuck on the downstroke. Replaced all key tops with harvested Cherry MX tops.

Now that's a demonstration of ignorance if I ever heard one.

First of all, the switch tops have different part numbers. If you actually knew anything at all about Gateron, you'd know they offer multiple housings with distinct part numbers. Not all Gaterons are black base / clear top. If they weren't consistent between three different keyboards, take it up with the manufacturers that ordered three different parts. By the way, black and translucent are KS-1 family; clear is exclusive to the KS-3 family. They aren't even the same.
Secondly, it is the responsibility of Gateron's customer (that is, the people building the keyboard) to verify QC. Shocker, excessive heat or force during assembly can deform the switch tops on ANY switch. They screwed up in assembly or QC by not verifying the keyboard was functional. Again, this is on the people who built the KEYBOARD, not the people who built the switches.

Then a just recently got my assembled KC60 with Gaterons and Gateron is now making switches with a wider rim on the bottom shell that collides with certain Costar stabs. Had to cut down all the stabilized key switches!

Never had ANY of these issues with Cherry MX switches. Brand new ones and vintage ones ... you might not appreciate the feeling of the recent Cherry batches but I have never had issues with them at all.

On the other hand, I haven't been into Gateron switches for more than a year and already got three different types of switches from them. There is no consistency, you buy "Gateron" switches somewhere and have no clue what you are getting. I'm really past the hype and increasingly annoyed by their design policy. And I'm not talking about HIGHLY subjective aspects like key feel, the issues I had with Gaterons so far are documented and backed by other people's experience.

First of all, see above. Most complaints are, no surprise, due to people mishandling or damaging the switches themselves. And trying to blame Gateron for it. Of 240 switches out of the bag, exactly zero have any problems here. Not a single one. That tells me that the only reasonable explanation is damage caused by end-user or damage during shipping. (I am not a fan of the plastic bag shipping.)
Your claims about the stabilizers, honestly, I don't know what the hell is going on there. Costar is lowest-bidder junk so it's not at all unlikely they made an undocumented change to tolerances. I certainly don't see that amount of overhang on my KS-3's. Maybe somebody had an off day. But since nobody else has reported it to my knowledge, that's all it is. Doesn't reproduce here; works fine for me.
And again you're trying the absolutely rubbish claim of "well they aren't consistent" because you got three different part numbers. TAKE IT UP WITH THE PEOPLE ASSEMBLING THE KEYBOARD. They know full well that Gateron makes the KS-1 and KS-3 switches, and that the two are different. If you don't like them not telling you if it's KS-1 or KS-3, that's on THEM, not on Gateron.
wiki/Gateron_KS-1_series
wiki/Gateron_KS-3_series

Meanwhile, I'm sitting here on MX browns that didn't have consistent feel or motion from day one. Within a year, the most frequently used switches all developed severe stem wobble. I gave another MX Blue board a shot, sent it straight back with 2 non-clickers and 3 bad leaves. I have a stack of 105 Blacks freshly removed, at least 10 of them have known bad leaves.

[Wodan]

There is a significant difference in stiffness between those switches. Especially the clicks MX clones of the various manufacturers have very distinct characteristics. You should find out for yourself whether you like the heavs/stiff clicks switches (i.e. MX Green) or prefer the light class clicky switches (MX Blue) and then we can start and talk brands.

Also I'm not generally against Gateron but try to see the different manufacturers objectively. This means I try to stay away from the hypes and differentiate between my opinion and objective facts when talking about switches. More than often I fail.

This means I actually quite enjoy all my Gateron keyboards. Some required a little fixing but they all work flawlessly now. Same thing with my Cherry MX keyboards though. I make them work and try to get the best out of every single one of them.

And the Gateron Blue switches are very popular with some community members for a reason. While Cherry MX Blues feel very "Tick tick tick tick" when typing, the Gaterons feel more like "Pick pick pick pick"

Hope that makes sense

[Wodan]

Now that's a demonstration of ignorance if I ever heard one.

First of all, the switch tops have different part numbers. If you actually knew anything at all about Gateron, you'd know they offer multiple housings with distinct part numbers. Not all Gaterons are black base / clear top. If they weren't consistent between three different keyboards, take it up with the manufacturers that ordered three different parts. By the way, black and translucent are KS-1 family; clear is exclusive to the KS-3 family. They aren't even the same.
Secondly, it is the responsibility of Gateron's customer (that is, the people building the keyboard) to verify QC. Shocker, excessive heat or force during assembly can deform the switch tops on ANY switch. They screwed up in assembly or QC by not verifying the keyboard was functional. Again, this is on the people who built the KEYBOARD, not the people who built the switches.

You gotta be kidding me. It's my fault I didn't check the part number of the switch tops when I ordered 120 Gateron KS-3 switches? And then it's MY responsibilty to do QC ... so I am Gaterons QC when purchasing their switches? No surprise their QC sucks

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

I also assembled the keyboard myself. Just like I did with dozens of other keyboards. Even built THE SAME IDENTICAL KEYBOARD with Gateron Blues bought at the same time from the same vendor with no switch-top issues at all. Anyone else to blame for their mess up? Is it so hard to admit that the early milky-white KS-3 switches were known for having a few batches of crappy tops?

First of all, see above. Most complaints are, no surprise, due to people mishandling or damaging the switches themselves. And trying to blame Gateron for it. Of 240 switches out of the bag, exactly zero have any problems here. Not a single one. That tells me that the only reasonable explanation is damage caused by end-user or damage during shipping. (I am not a fan of the plastic bag shipping.)
Your claims about the stabilizers, honestly, I don't know what the hell is going on there. Costar is lowest-bidder junk so it's not at all unlikely they made an undocumented change to tolerances. I certainly don't see that amount of overhang on my KS-3's. Maybe somebody had an off day. But since nobody else has reported it to my knowledge, that's all it is. Doesn't reproduce here; works fine for me.
And again you're trying the absolutely rubbish claim of "well they aren't consistent" because you got three different part numbers. TAKE IT UP WITH THE PEOPLE ASSEMBLING THE KEYBOARD. They know full well that Gateron makes the KS-1 and KS-3 switches, and that the two are different. If you don't like them not telling you if it's KS-1 or KS-3, that's on THEM, not on Gateron.
wiki/Gateron_KS-1_series
wiki/Gateron_KS-3_series

Meanwhile, I'm sitting here on MX browns that didn't have consistent feel or motion from day one. Within a year, the most frequently used switches all developed severe stem wobble. I gave another MX Blue board a shot, sent it straight back with 2 non-clickers and 3 bad leaves. I have a stack of 105 Blacks freshly removed, at least 10 of them have known bad leaves.

If you are having issues with Cherry MX switches there is very little I can object to that. No doubt you can have problems with them and I never meant to say they're flawless. But I never had problems and I predominantly use genuine Cherry switches. And Gateron isn't perfect just because Cherry sucks. That kind of black and white thinking makes this whole discussion harder for you.

But what you are doing now is acting like Gateron is right and if their switches don't work it's everyone elses fault but theirs. Sure Costar stabs are shit, I agree on that. But the fact that they collide with the current Gateron switches is Gaterons fault. This problem does not happen with Cherry MX switches and is caused by Gateron changing the design of their switches.

Maybe they have come up with a KS-5 switch and nobody knows it yet but these switches here look a lot like what you claim are KS-1 but have the stats of KS-3:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/gateron-switches

So my biggest criticism about Gateron switches is their inconsitency. You never know what you are going to get. They rarely even mention the KS-3 or KS-1 product name when you choose it as an option or buy the switches online. Then again this obviously doesn't mean anything since I am very certain all three different batches of Gateron switches I got were KS-3 switches. As a keyboard manufacturer (NPKC made the KC60 with the stabilizer issues) I'd be highly frustated about a supplier like Gateron that suddenly changes his product to something that conflicts with my existing and proven design.

[Wodan]

Gateron was like "Let's give these switches a nice rim":



VS

[chuckdee]

I put those in the plate with the slit facing downward. That is for the LEDs, from what I understand, though I could be wrong.

And I have to agree with Root on this... you have to check the switches before you install it, as you have to with any mass produced item like switches. You *shouldn't* have to, and QC *should* catch all of them. But they sometimes won't. I haven't had any bad ones so far.