SMK or Maxi Switch LED version?

snuci · 09 Feb 2017, 13:02

Harshmallow's thread An IBM kind of day, all in all an oKAY day! got me thinking about two recent Apple II clone computers I acquired. Rather than hijack his thread, I figured I'd put up a quick post.

I am in the process of cleaning them up and documenting them, if needed but now I'm not so sure what type of switches are in them. What may be of interest is a lit key switch that I'm not sure I've seen documented. Pics will go up in the wiki but as I was walking out the door, I took a quick camera phone pic (I haven't cleaned up the dust from the keyboard yet).

Is this an SMK J-M0404 series or a Maxi Switch Vintage linear variation? All other key stems are angled. I'm not 100% sure this one is as it's a Caps Lock key on it's own (but is NOT alternate action). I thought for sure it was SMK but those Maxi Switch vintage linears look awfully close.

Naturally, I'll document if needed. I am a little behind at the moment.

: Apple II clone lit switch; Apple II clone lit switch.jpg (131.57 KiB) Viewed 3803 times

Daniel Beardsmore · 09 Feb 2017, 19:09

Hmm … although SMK J-M0404 series was "cloned", it seems that all the "clones" take Cherry keycaps (looking at the narrower keystems), and that switch appears not to, so it may be legitimate. I do notice though that the slider vanes have rounded faces and that doesn't match anything I've seen, which does make me wonder if it's a new clone type.

It's funny that you mention that it is not alternate action. There is an alternate action clone type with an LED that fits onto the top just like that. It's on KBtalKing, but that forum seems to be defunct: the pages redirect to generic cool3c URLs and none of the images load. However, that clone has a square section slider to allow for the latch track.

It's too hard to say. Things to check include PCB branding and the keycap design (SMK doubleshots are distinctive) and the colours of the other switches (in case there are some distinctive Maxi or SMK colour arrangements) but it may be impossible to tell without removing a switch.

snuci · 10 Feb 2017, 00:11

Here are some quick pics of both keyboards. Turns out I have 1 lit Caps Lock and 1 lit alternate action Caps Lock key. Unfortunately, no markings on either board but one does have a sticker on the keyboard controller. I need better pics but I took these while there was still some daylight so excuse the blurriness.

Note: I is an Apple II clone and the other with numeric keypad is an Apple IIe clone (from what I've read). I have not yet booted these up to see how the work.

Apple II clone (Week 18 1981):

: Apple II clone - keyboard top; Apple II clone - keyboard top.JPG (328.21 KiB) Viewed 3749 times

: Apple II clone - keyboard bottom; Apple II clone - keyboard bottom.JPG (346.39 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple II clone - keyboard controller; Apple II clone - keyboard controller.JPG (392.59 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple II clone - IC with date code; Apple II clone - IC with date code.JPG (365.89 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple II clone - only label; Apple II clone - only label.JPG (264.64 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple II clone - space bar key switch; Apple II clone - space bar key switch.JPG (238.89 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple II clone - caps lock lit alternate action; Apple II clone - caps lock lit alternate action.JPG (307.35 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple II clone - lit switch locked; Apple II clone - lit switch locked.JPG (234.89 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple II clone - lit switch unlocked; Apple II clone - lit switch unlocked.JPG (234.88 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

Apple IIe clone (Week 37 1983):

: Apple IIe clone - keyboard top; Apple IIe clone - keyboard top.JPG (331.83 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple IIe clone - keyboard bottom; Apple IIe clone - keyboard bottom.JPG (398.67 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple IIe clone - keyboard controller; Apple IIe clone - keyboard controller.JPG (340.97 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple IIe clone - space bar key switch; Apple IIe clone - space bar key switch.JPG (300.38 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple IIe clone - key switches; Apple IIe clone - key switches.JPG (327.29 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple IIe clone - caps lock key switch; Apple IIe clone - caps lock key switch.JPG (263.17 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

: Apple IIe clone - caps lock key 2; Apple IIe clone - caps lock key 2.JPG (317.96 KiB) Viewed 3753 times

Daniel Beardsmore · 10 Feb 2017, 00:17

I see …

snuci · 10 Feb 2017, 00:29

Sorry, mislabeled pics. Fixed now.

Daniel Beardsmore · 10 Feb 2017, 00:42

The sliders look fairly poorly moulded. Photobucket is alive again, and while the pictures still don't work at cool3c, you can view them directly. This is the clone switch I was thinking of:

http://s246.photobucket.com/user/limits ... S.jpg.html

That's the SMK mount version of [wiki]USw LXBB01[/wiki].

This has a simplified latching system. Yours seems to have the side box like on a real SMK switch, but I still think they're clones.

snuci · 10 Feb 2017, 02:09

I will have to take a couple of switches out and take some pics. Hopefully, they will be marked on the bottom but they do look like they could be a little more polished if they were a quality switch.

snuci · 11 Feb 2017, 00:07

Bottom of both switches. What is that logo?

: Apple II clone - keyswitch bottom; Apple II clone - keyswitch bottom.JPG (304.33 KiB) Viewed 3727 times

: Apple IIe clone - keyswitch bottom; Apple IIe clone - keyswitch bottom.JPG (285.08 KiB) Viewed 3727 times

Daniel Beardsmore · 11 Feb 2017, 00:17

It's what I thought it would be — the same series as I mentioned previously, but a different design of latching switch. I haven't a clue what the logo means, or even which way up it goes (I drew it a particular way up, but thinking about it, maybe it goes a different way up).

snuci · 11 Feb 2017, 00:41

You can see the locking vs non-locking key switches as the non-locking key switch is missing the internal pin.

: Clone Switches - non-locking vs locking; Clone Switches - non-locking vs locking.JPG (179.52 KiB) Viewed 3721 times

Daniel Beardsmore · 11 Feb 2017, 01:17

I could see in the photo that the non-locking type had the plate cutout and seemed to have that side box, which made me wonder, as clearly it wasn't being used. I guess at this point they only had one shell design that took LEDs.

You can see clearly how the different parts of the shell fit together, as the colours and textures are more distinct there than they are with SMK. The different textures is however a direct copy of how SMK made them, and I don't know what that was all about!

: Note the different plastic textures, as well as the blue lubricant used in the latch track.; SMK lock.jpg (194.11 KiB) Viewed 3712 times

(This is one of many SMK J-M0404 photos I'll clean up and post to the wiki, or maybe not, depending on how soon Trump or Fukushima bring about the apocalypse.)

snuci · 11 Feb 2017, 01:29

I suck at switch pics. Here's a quick pic.

: Clone switches - Internal parts; Clone switches - Internal parts.JPG (913.49 KiB) Viewed 3709 times

Daniel Beardsmore · 11 Feb 2017, 01:33

Same design, but different materials …

The one I mentioned that alps.tw has (square slider) is a typical Chinese/Taiwanese situation, where we have no idea where it came from, who found it, anything. At least with yours we can put a date on the different types, as well as the source keyboard.

Daniel Beardsmore · 12 Feb 2017, 16:57

What should we even call this series?

I've recovered the full size images of the types alps.tw photographed and assigned them LXBW03 (upright) and LXBW04 (angled). However, I've not given them pages yet, as I'm thinking that we need to consolidate this series onto a single page (as there's a lot of different types known now). After all, you've got 3.5 new versions (momentary, space bar, alternate action illuminable and not-fitted out alternate action illuminable that is inexplicably brown). I am not sure what a cream shell means in SMK terms. Low friction is brown slider, and low weight uses a beige or cream base. Cream shell seems redundant. So far as I know, there's no heavy weight SMK switch (space bar used multiple switches and/or external spring) so in your case, that beige shell could mean heavy weight, and/or lubrication.

The frustrating part is that we can't give it a name based on its markings, as the logo isn't recognisable. I just tried all four orientations in Google Images, and nothing. No keyboard with them so far has shown any recognisable form of identification or any FCC ID that can be traced back to anyone anywhere!

Also, do yours actually accept SMK keycaps? I can't test alps.tw's (some may take Cherry keycaps and some may take SMK keycaps) but at least with yours we can determine if they're SMK clones or not.

snuci · 12 Feb 2017, 17:15

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑The frustrating part is that we can't give it a name based on its markings, as the logo isn't recognisable. I just tried all four orientations in Google Images, and nothing. No keyboard with them so far has shown any recognisable form of identification or any FCC ID that can be traced back to anyone anywhere!

I tried the Google image search when I found your logo drawing as well. The letters in the logo could indicate ONN ON UUO UO CO CCO depending on the orientation of the logo. Since these key switches are in a clone Apple II product, these would be very inexpensive clones and since they are likely from Asia, the logo is probably not in English lettering.

Daniel Beardsmore wrote: ↑Also, do yours actually accept SMK keycaps? I can't test alps.tw's (some may take Cherry keycaps and some may take SMK keycaps) but at least with yours we can determine if they're SMK clones or not.

I forgot to take a pic of the key caps but the key caps are very nice thick double shots. I'll take some pics tomorrow and post. Can't do it today. I'll also try out SMK and Cherry key caps.

Daniel Beardsmore · 12 Feb 2017, 17:41

The convention seems to be to form curious abbreviations. For example, we would abbreviate "forward" to "fwd" but Forward themselves use "F D" on their products. [wiki]HTK switch[/wiki]es have been found in a Hottek keyboard, so "HTK" appears to be another Asian-style abbreviation, like "KPT" for Keypot. Even the Wong's logo is based on Latin letters. One chip is marked STC, and they do make microcontrollers, whoever they are.

I do think it's a Latin alphabet abbreviation, but it's impossible to determine the exact letters and their order, and these switches are not common enough to get a better idea. I did see a keyboard recently with SMK-like switches that seemed not to be real SMK, and I guess those were also these. I guess I wrote to the site owner but I've never had a response if I did — I forget now.

The Jen Lemon II is another Apple II clone with SMK-shape switches, but I have no idea if they're real or not.

Daniel Beardsmore · 14 Feb 2017, 00:30

For better or for worse (and definitely for poorer):

[wiki]Monogram SMK derivative series[/wiki]

snuci · 14 Feb 2017, 02:48

Sorry, didn't get a chance to take pics of the key caps before it got dark. The key caps do NOT fit Cherry MX. I didn't have a SMK keyboard kicking around but the stem did fit Futaba complicated linear key caps (if SMK are similar in size).

I was busy working on my IBM PC110 laptop. I have a slight problem with boot up and may be affected by some corrosion. It doesn't have an interesting keyboard to you guys but I took a couple pics anyway.

Spoiler:

If the scale throws you off, check here...

Spoiler:

snuci · 14 Feb 2017, 23:37

Here are pics of the key caps. These are thick double shots. The Caps Lock key is re-legendable. One keyboard has the clear plastic top, the other does not.

: Apple II clone - key caps; Apple II clone - key caps.JPG (247.79 KiB) Viewed 3626 times

: Apple IIe clone - key caps; Apple IIe clone - key caps 1.JPG (233.08 KiB) Viewed 3626 times

: Apple IIe clone - key caps alternate angle; Apple IIe clone - key caps 2.JPG (222.45 KiB) Viewed 3626 times

Daniel Beardsmore · 15 Feb 2017, 00:51

Surprisingly good keycaps — maybe that's why they skimped on the switches!

I had no idea just how huge Canadian quarters are. I won't hear of anyone complaining about the weight of pound coins any more — I'll send them off to Canada where it's much worse.