[IC] GH60 EU mini GB

[matt3o]

I'm wondering if there's interest in making a small batch of GH60 boards before the official release. The official GB will take a while and I'm wondering if there's interest in making 20-50 pcb in EU very quickly (with Komar permission of course).

Basically we produce a very small quantity of GH60 in 4-6 days. The cost per board would be pretty high (€35-40+shipping I guess) because we are not making big numbers, but you get the board in a couple of weeks instead of a couple of months. Also you are on your own buying the components (not to mention soldering).

We could also skip the silkscreen and use a standard green board to reduce price.

thoughts?

[mintberryminuscrunch]

already ordered

[matt3o]

already ordered

do you have the list of components? maybe with link to mouser or farnel?

thanks

[mintberryminuscrunch]

no, i placed my order with the gb on GH
but I'm sure there are some links in the gb thread

[huttala]

So what we need after the PCB is bought is:
Diodes
Switches
Caps
Case
Stabilizers
And a controller, I have not looked into the GH60 group buy, but I guess they are using Teensy 2 just as with the Phantoms?

Please correct me if I missed something.

[davkol]

And a controller, I have not looked into the GH60 group buy, but I guess they are using Teensy 2 just as with the Phantoms?

Please correct me if I missed something.

Atmel IIRC

[JBert]

Hang on, aren't you forgetting to state that soldering the SMD components is advanced stuff?
The GH60 isn't designed with through-hole components like the Phantom or Ergodox are...

Also, already ordered on GH...

[Muirium]

I'd be interested in an assembled GH60. Late adopter…

[TDub]

35-40 Euros? How is that more expensive? After shipping from the states and customs, I think we will easily hit that for the none DIY variety. Only question would be if its the pcb with smd components and controller or without. I managed to solder smd diodes on my ergodox but don't think i can handle the controller.

Would be in for 2-3, depending on the controller and final price.

[pasph]

So what we need after the PCB is bought is:
Diodes
Switches
Caps
Case
Stabilizers
And a controller, I have not looked into the GH60 group buy, but I guess they are using Teensy 2 just as with the Phantoms?

Please correct me if I missed something.

Plate

[matt3o]

This is no easy stuff for sure. Diodes and the controller are all SMD, they are quite a job to solder, that's why I'm calling it "mini GB" I can try to ask for a quotation for the PCB with presoldered components, but it's gonna be expensive for few samples. Consider that my €35 estimate is just for the PCB. Everything else is up to you.

What you need to make a complete keyboard:

1) PCB (this GB)
2) Diodes, Controller, USB port, other components (you'll get a direct link to mouser/farnell or others)
3) Switches (up to you)
4) Caps
5) Case (best bet is a pure or poker case)
6) Stabs
7) Plate (optional, I can give you CAD files and possibly I can handle a small quantity of orders for the plate in stainless steel)

[dirge]

You'd need to make changes to the board mate, soldering some of the components was too difficult without a hot air gun.

Diodes controller usb are fine just one component was a bitch as the pads could be a little larger.

[guilleguillaume]

I'm only interested if I can get the same things that are being produced in the GH-60 GB. I mean the already soldered PCB with diodes, controller and USB port. I don't like green PCB!

If not I don't see any reason to buy from this GB because I can't do that type of work.

It's more expensive and requires more work

[komar007]

Ok, time for me to write something.
Of course I don't mind anything you're doing here.
As for soldermask, I don't think you'll save much here. The difference between green and black matte is about $30 for the tooling cost + probably $1-2 per board for low quantities (and a few tens of cents for larger ones).
If you do want to get these boards as soon as possible, please wait until I finalize the design, because still not all the things are done. Especially the exact dimensions and mounting hole placement.

[matt3o]

thanks komar for your post, very much appreciated. Looking forward to the final design then. I've had a quote from a company here and actually the price per board would be lower than what I expected, so a black or white pcb would be totally feasible. again problem is with the soldering that not everyone is willing to face

[huttala]

thanks komar for your post, very much appreciated. Looking forward to the final design then. I've had a quote from a company here and actually the price per board would be lower than what I expected, so a black or white pcb would be totally feasible. again problem is with the soldering that not everyone is willing to face

Isn't the soldering just switches, controller and diodes? If so it's the same as with the phantom boards and no problem for anyone really. It's really easy so solder those things.

[matt3o]

keyword here is SMD

[TDub]

That's what we are talking about. And especially the controller looks very difficult. The video is from the GH GB thread at GH.

[matt3o]

okay, the alternative would be to design a solder friendly version of the PCB with all passthrough components and holes for teensy/arduino/whatever

[JBert]

Isn't the soldering just switches, controller and diodes? If so it's the same as with the phantom boards and no problem for anyone really. It's really easy so solder those things.

Here are a few quotes from WhiteFireDragon to show how difficult it is, and he made quite a lot of them during the beta-testing:

Now the one that I built using an iron took me a while. 166 small pads to solder (not counting any of the tiny pins from the atmega and USB) was really tedious. This board probably isn't a good one to learn SMD soldering by hand if it's your first time. The X1 crystal with 4 pads was almost impossible with just an iron. You can tack down the first pad, but the other 3 pads will nearly be all covered and you won't be able to apply the solder around or underneath. These pads should have been a tiny bit bigger to hand solder. I cheated and ended up using hot air just for the X1 pads. Lots of flux was needed to solder the 44 fine pins from the atmega and 4 USB pins to help prevent solder bridges. The rest of the caps, resistors, and diodes weren't too bad, but just tedious. Lastly, there isn't much room to mess up because these are not the same as desoldering switches. You'll have to desolder 2 pads simultaneously either with 2 irons or hot air. For components with 4 pads or the controller pins, you'd have to use hot air or quikchip with braid if they get misaligned. Pretty much you get one shot to do each component, and I wouldn't have stood a chance if I didn't have a fine chisel tip (<1.4mm) iron and solder wire size 0.020" or smaller.

How long did it take you for iron only? When I tried to solder those X1 pads, I had to desolder a few times to reseat it. I eventually got it, but I wasn't 100% sure all the pads made contact, so I ended up just using hot air to be safe.

[mSSM]

Ok, time for me to write something.
Of course I don't mind anything you're doing here.
As for soldermask, I don't think you'll save much here. The difference between green and black matte is about $30 for the tooling cost + probably $1-2 per board for low quantities (and a few tens of cents for larger ones).
If you do want to get these boards as soon as possible, please wait until I finalize the design, because still not all the things are done. Especially the exact dimensions and mounting hole placement.

As I didn't follow the development of the GH60 on Geekhack, just to clarify:
You are also involved with the GH60, is that correct? Or ist your “komar-60“ design unrelated?

In the former case: is the current group-buy on Geekhack for a Beta-version of the GH60 then? As you mention, the design is not finalized.


Also, all this stuff is not related to 7bit's project is it? It would of course be great to have a EU based project, too. (On that note, is that project still alive, even??)

[huttala]

I did not know it required SMD soldering, my bad. Thought the controller was like a teensy (with pins). SMD is not fun if you do not have the right tools for it.

So a solder friendly version of the controller would be nice matt3o, but will it fit in a regular poker case? Maybee someone that has a poker at home could check how much space there is between the PCB and the case?

[matt3o]

Maybee someone that has a poker at home could check how much space there is between the PCB and the case?

I have a Pure case that should be more or less the same as a Poker and there seems to be enough space. Definitely enough for a teensy but probably for an arduino micro too (in the upper part). There are also controllers from sparkfun that are pretty nice ( https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11098 ), but I don't think we can source them from EU.

Anyway it seems that there are not enough adventurers for this GB to happen

Edit: yes, there are some EU resellers

[huttala]

Give it a shot, if you lay out the whole plan with controller etc. and it seems reasonable for people I think more will join in on the fun.

[TDub]

Doesn't redesigning the PCB for a Teensy defeat the purpose of a quick EU GB? It really would need to go through a prototype state at which point we can just stick to the regular GB with a presoldered controller. They just got cheaper as well (30 $ now).

[komar007]

Ok, time for me to write something.
Of course I don't mind anything you're doing here.
As for soldermask, I don't think you'll save much here. The difference between green and black matte is about $30 for the tooling cost + probably $1-2 per board for low quantities (and a few tens of cents for larger ones).
If you do want to get these boards as soon as possible, please wait until I finalize the design, because still not all the things are done. Especially the exact dimensions and mounting hole placement.

As I didn't follow the development of the GH60 on Geekhack, just to clarify:
You are also involved with the GH60, is that correct? Or ist your “komar-60“ design unrelated?

In the former case: is the current group-buy on Geekhack for a Beta-version of the GH60 then? As you mention, the design is not finalized.


Also, all this stuff is not related to 7bit's project is it? It would of course be great to have a EU based project, too. (On that note, is that project still alive, even??)

I design the electronics on GH60 project. "komar-60" (if you mean that: http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... t4865.html ) is a prototype of GH60, which has changed quite a lot since then (bugfixes and new features).

Current group buy on GH is for the final version of GH60. But the final version doesn't exist yet. I'm still working on it.

And lastly, no, it's not related to 7bit's project.
And you could call GH60 EU-based, actually. The whole electrical part was designed in Poland.

[7bit]

What about DT60 or PL60 or K760?

[komar007]

What about DT60 or PL60 or K760?

I can just rebrand it DT60 and sell it here.

[Slavfot]

What about DT60 or PL60 or K760?

I can just rebrand it DT60 and sell it here.