F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

Ellipse

30 Jun 2020, 20:39

Would the alternative debounce threshold 11 be worth trying? It's a separate firmware posted on the project web site ModelFKeyboards.com/code

Also QMK beta firmware now works well on the Model F xwhatsit controller and may not have the issues you describe.

I have had very fast typists like you doing typing accuracy tests and have never encountered the situation you describe.

Sometimes a quirky key is due to a bad or mis-seated spring (check out the Model F QC secrets video on the project web site blog for details on a fix).

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webwit
Wild Duck

30 Jun 2020, 21:00

If we presume the speed causes a problem for the software, debounce or voltage, it seems unlikely it would discriminate on the F key alone. So I guess a quirky spring.

Senescent

30 Jun 2020, 22:33

So I replaced the spring and it seems to have totally fixed the issue! I'm new to buckling spring keyboards but to me, it didn't feel or sound any different than the rest of the keys. I guess it was just a problem spring.

Thank you guys for the suggestion. This keyboard feels great!

Ellipse

30 Jun 2020, 22:54

Excellent, good news Senescent!

webwit I have experienced some issues with certain keys only that sometimes require the alternative debounce 11 setting. It is rare and I do not know the cause - probably due to manufacturing variations would be my guess. Debounce 6 is my default go-to option when I load everyone's firmware.

procom32

30 Jun 2020, 23:20

Just received my F62 and I am elated!
Excited to get the new keys and to get QMK loaded once both are finished.
So much work has gone into this project and I want to thank all of the people who are involved! Joe and others.
My XT has been sitting on a shelf for a while, the weird layout always threw me off, but this board satisfies what I have been wanting from a spring keyboard since my first model m.

Image
Don't mind the weird function keys, the keys are stolen from a junk model m in my basement. ;)

Ellipse

01 Jul 2020, 23:42

Great news procom32! Please do share your experience with setting up and using QMK once you have done so.

I still hope to get the rest of the orders out this year including the dye sublimation.

Regarding dye sublimation, the factory is now doing trial jig designs to get the alignment perfect. Equal alignment on these keys is probably one of the most important aspects of the "XT quality" keys.

IBM was quite variable over the years with the actual distance from the top/left sides for key alignment but as long as it's consistent within a key set (as was the case with IBM) it will be acceptable. Equality of alignment matters more than actual distance, but I am aiming for the characters to be 1/20th inch away from top and 1/20th inch away from the left side of the key corner as it is on a number of my original Model F keyboards.

Solenoid driver update - solenoid driver samples are confirmed working and solenoid driver assembly should finish soon.

Note: the solenoid driver activity LED for diagnostic purposes does not work (the LED never worked even on my original solenoid driver made directly by xwhatsit). Not sure why.
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tentator

02 Jul 2020, 01:04

that's interesting, the led was working for me but I only tested it so far with commonsense and the cypress based controller.. I'd start finally test it with xwhatsit indeed..

rgleas

02 Jul 2020, 19:47

Hello all. I finally got around to making a quick video demonstrating my F62 and F77 boards, by performing a few type races individually with them. It may be a good comparison between the new model F keycaps (on F62) and Unicomp key caps (on F77), of which I believe the new model F key caps are noticeably better and give a much more pleasant sound.
Cheers.

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darkcruix

02 Jul 2020, 22:20

I wanted to share a picture of my Model-F family. The top one is an F107 (not a New Model-F obviously), middle is the F77 and at the bottom the F62. All in Industrial Grey.
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gnmar2723

03 Jul 2020, 05:11

I apologize if this is a question that is answered frequently, but I'm not exactly active on here anymore and I'm just curious when I might expect delivery of my board. I ordered back in July 2017. I know there has been a substantial disruption of global supply chains, just wondering if I can get an answer without rereading pages and pages of this thread.

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Elrick

03 Jul 2020, 06:58

gnmar2723 wrote:
03 Jul 2020, 05:11
I apologize if this is a question that is answered frequently, but I'm not exactly active on here anymore and I'm just curious when I might expect delivery of my board. I ordered back in July 2017.
Don't personally expect to see My F77 till 2023 or much later sometime :D .

Suspect due to what is happening now it won't clear up this year or the next. Hence get use to this new era of complete break down and suspension of anything being made and delivered.

Only if you reside within the United States, then your options are far greater in getting your keyboard sooner.

For all of us located elsewhere on this planet, it's to be expected and endured. Because that is how it's always been in Convict Town, where low expectations is the norm and we accept it on a daily basis ;) .

Besides I trust Ellipse to continue with this keyboard for some time yet, due to what is happening here.

Ellipse

03 Jul 2020, 07:43

gnmar2723 please do feel free to check the monthly blog updates which summarize all of the month's updates for those not following the forums as closely.

The major update is that I've QC'd and shipped out 344 keyboards so far and am continuing to send out shipments without printed keys to those who want early delivery, with printed items to ship later.

The only ones that are not going out are those who prefer delivery all at once (e.g. if they do not have extra Model M / Model F / Unicomp keyboards to borrow keys from) and those whose keyboards are in the second of two container shipments of the early bird round (mostly the remaining keyboards with installed, unprinted keys as well as the compact case keyboards).

The last step is the dye sublimation which they are working on setting up and still needs more time to complete.

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darkcruix

03 Jul 2020, 10:06

QMK
Now that I also have a bunch of New Model F models, I would like to become a QMK tester as well. How can I sign up for it and give feedback?

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tentator

03 Jul 2020, 11:53

PM coming :)

troglotype

03 Jul 2020, 11:55

Mine are still stuck in customs, but I'd love to give QMK a try (using macOS), once I have picked them up.

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darkcruix

03 Jul 2020, 15:14

I don't want to spam this forum, but I have done another Video that compares the Original Model F (F107) with the New Model F variants. I also compared a Beam Spring 3278 with the New Model F. This time I did use a proper Mic for the sound recording.
I hope you find it interesting and enjoy:

EDIT: Audio issues resolved with new video
Last edited by darkcruix on 03 Jul 2020, 21:43, edited 2 times in total.

Ellipse

03 Jul 2020, 17:32

Thanks darkcruix - everyone please keep all the Model F videos coming! I liked how the videos compared the sounds of keys of different keyboards alternating keyboards back and forth.

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Scarpia

03 Jul 2020, 19:13

I just paid for the customs/import taxes on mine, so it should be arriving any day now *squee!*

Ellipse

03 Jul 2020, 23:14

The custom made solenoids are now available to order! So now everything is open to order - USB-C controllers (Model F, beam spring non-displaywriter, beam spring displaywriter), solenoid drivers, and solenoids.

For those not aware, a solenoid contains a metal cylinder that vibrates the keyboard and/or makes a noise every time you press a key (with exception for certain key programming like the Windows GUI key, etc.) and helps add even more clickiness to a keyboard.

These solenoids are also a great option as an upgrade to IBM's original solenoids too (I'd always save the originals of course for the sake of completeness).

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... ontroller/

Why pick this solenoid over other solenoids or over IBM's original solenoids?

The new solenoids are far beefier than IBM's originals, so your solenoid clicking will be even better!  It's a custom design that you can only order here.  The specifications are 6v, 40 ohm, 0.15A, 0.9W, adjustable throw factory set to 1mm but with a user-adjustable range of about 0.5mm to 5mm (there are 2 screws that can be loosened to adjust the distance of the strike bar).  The factory throw setting allows you to start using this solenoid with no modification (still need to follow xwhatsit's solenoid installation guide to avoid damage to equipment).

This solenoid has the dark blue outer covering, black and white twisted wires and 2.54mm connector like the original IBM solenoids, but with a strike bar so it won't exactly resemble the IBM solenoid. 

This solenoid is not the one that's available on eBay, though it looks similar and the voltage and resistance specs are the same.  Also that other model doesn't have the adjustable throw - you would have to spend time milling the strike bar to modify it for correct usage with the solenoid drivers.  If the ebay solenoid's throw distance isn't changed, your solenoid will be very sluggish and won't be able to operate at full typing speed. Also my solenoid is even larger than the eBay solenoid, the 26mm height dimension on eBay is set to be ~29-30mm on my solenoid (the solenoid goes sideways in F62/F77 so it fits) though all the solenoid specs are subject to change.  With a larger metal frame, my solenoid should be a little louder than the eBay model and far louder than the original IBM!  This is the largest possible solenoid that will fit inside the classic style F62 and F77 cases. 

These solenoids will be in the second container ship, expected to leave China soon, so they are not in stock just yet. Will post photos as soon as production finishes.

latemodel24

03 Jul 2020, 23:25

What connector comes on the controller of the f77?

Ellipse

03 Jul 2020, 23:36

You get a 6 pin expansion header as detailed in xwhatsit's Model F manual here: https://static.wongcornall.com/ibm-caps ... odel_f.pdf

Good for buzzers, solenoid drivers, LEDs

The header is already soldered in to the controller so you don't have to add it.

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gnmar2723

04 Jul 2020, 00:04

Ellipse wrote:
03 Jul 2020, 07:43
gnmar2723 please do feel free to check the monthly blog updates which summarize all of the month's updates for those not following the forums as closely.

The major update is that I've QC'd and shipped out 344 keyboards so far and am continuing to send out shipments without printed keys to those who want early delivery, with printed items to ship later.

The only ones that are not going out are those who prefer delivery all at once (e.g. if they do not have extra Model M / Model F / Unicomp keyboards to borrow keys from) and those whose keyboards are in the second of two container shipments of the early bird round (mostly the remaining keyboards with installed, unprinted keys as well as the compact case keyboards).

The last step is the dye sublimation which they are working on setting up and still needs more time to complete.
Appreciate the update! I'll try and keep up to date on the blog :)

latemodel24

04 Jul 2020, 03:02

My bad, I meant the usb connector

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webwit
Wild Duck

05 Jul 2020, 10:19

So since the firmware fix, I encountered my first problem after a couple of months of heavy duty typing. One key (tab) completely went dead. This is kind of weird. I haven't tried replacing the spring yet but somehow I don't think that's it. It clicks, it feels normal and even if I take off the keycap and wriggle the spring a bit, there is no registration whatsoever. Usually a bad spring gives erratic behaviour but not this.

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webwit
Wild Duck

05 Jul 2020, 14:11

Spring replacement didn't work. Then shortly after backslash started typing out of its own, and then it died as well. Something fishy going on... gonna try QMK to see what happens.

Ellipse

05 Jul 2020, 17:25

Hmm, strange. It might need a small reduction in voltage threshold? Export your layout to a file and load the blank layout before continuing the testing. With the keyboard flat on the desk, when the tab key is removed completely and you just have the flipper and spring, does the gray tab indicate the key is pressed? Could be some kind of dust maybe?

The last step would be to open up the keyboard and manually test it with a flipper, as shown here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaa23N9JDBs

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webwit
Wild Duck

05 Jul 2020, 19:13

That was the first thing I tried. Also a bit higher. And I tried the other threshold. Anyway, I tried the QMK tools and the keys were fine. Now trying it out and testing with QMK. No more dead keys for starters. PS: Many thanks to pandrew for the help!

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tentator

05 Jul 2020, 22:12

QMK rulez! =)

tent:wq

kmnov2017

05 Jul 2020, 22:14

tentator wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 22:12
QMK rulez! =)

tent:wq
Definitely, the through hole xwhatsit with pandrei's qmk was basically plug and play..!!!

troglotype

05 Jul 2020, 22:15

tentator wrote:
05 Jul 2020, 22:12
QMK rulez! =)

tent:wq
Äuädescho

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