Howto determine the difference between ABS, PBT and POM

User avatar
7bit

01 Jun 2012, 20:43

ps: Did I mention that I don't like POM keys because they are slippery?

POM might be good for something, but surely not for typing!

ripster

01 Jun 2012, 20:54

7bit wrote: I think the sink/not sing thing is because there are some little air bubbles on some keys, so they don't sink. When cleaning key caps I have this all the time. This should really be researched one day. When you come back, we might call you Dr. Ripster.

Correct!

Toothpicks take out the stem air bubbles.

1/8 tsp RinseAid Surfactant takes out the surface tiny... bubbles (that one stumped me for a while I tell ya).

FOR KEYBOARD SCIENCE!!!
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Dr. Ripster, I LIKE it! Guess who I am at Geekhack now though!!! (hint: follow the lego).

Where's Limmy at? This is how AMERICANS got #1 in Nobel Prizes!
:mrgreen:
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ripster

01 Jun 2012, 21:01

Tomorrow it's SALT EXPERIMENTS!
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User avatar
7bit

01 Jun 2012, 21:22

Maybe they should have done the holes smaller, so the Sauerkraut would not be over-salted!
:o

edit: It's equal right now,
but 7bit-ASCII-order leaves me in 3rd spot!
:ugeek:

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 01:57

You'll see.

And to add SALT to your wounds I found the RIGHT amount of salt to add.

Will continue tomorrow.

FOR KEYBOARD SCIENCE!

- Dr. Ripster

User avatar
Maarten

02 Jun 2012, 10:50

ripster wrote:Where's Limmy at? This is how AMERICANS got #1 in Nobel Prizes!
:mrgreen:
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Oh no they didnt! The US has 5 times the population of the UK so per head they actually have made waaay less prizes (about half in fact)! Heck, even us Dutchies have more nobel prizes per head of the population than the americans (and dont get me started on the Austrians, Sweeds or Swiss). When i think of it its actually pretty hard to find a country that has less nobel prizes than the US folks, like everything they just rely on their power in numbers thing for really everything, even when making useless graphs!

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

02 Jun 2012, 11:22

China has less. Nobel Joke Prize has lost its value anyway. They hand those out to anyone. Ripster's dog won one.

User avatar
Mrinterface

02 Jun 2012, 13:00

Alright, this is what I found regarding POM caps :
1. They have a dimple at the top center when viewed in proper lighting/angle ( but this was already known )
2. They all have 4 little circles in each corner on the backside of the keycap. I checked and could not find any other mx keycap with that same property.

Can anyone confirm number 2?

User avatar
7bit

02 Jun 2012, 13:32

Mrinterface wrote:Alright, this is what I found regarding POM caps :
1. They have a dimple at the top center when viewed in proper lighting/angle ( but this was already known )
2. They all have 4 little circles in each corner on the backside of the keycap. I checked and could not find any other mx keycap with that same property.

Can anyone confirm number 2?
Aren't they labeled POM on the inside?

User avatar
kint

02 Jun 2012, 14:13

My POMs never had a POM Label on the inside.
I can only confirm the ones I currently own, a set of Raptor K1, 1502, 11900 - all three are black.
none of them labeled on the inside, all slippery. All have dimples, easy to see on bigger keys, harder on 1x1 keys. All of them are deformed on the side, some more, some less.

As for 2. - I'm not sure I understood correct what you meant. maybe the pic helps:
the flat circles that are even with the surface on the bottom, (red arrows) well all my POMs have them, but also some of the PBTs (also seemingly less often) PBTs are Compaq 11800 ALT and Cherry 1800 capsL.
As for the little stems on the cross (blue arrows) K1 tab has them, as well as 11900 Enter, but also the PBT space bar of the latter.
Image

For me its still: slippery, no marking, dimples, deformed sides => most likely Cherry POM.

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 14:39

ripster wrote:Salty Water test?

Is that like the Muddy Waters test? Let's get my MOJO working!

How much salt do you use? And IIRC many plastics have widely varying specific gravity based on injection of air and additives. Like titanium dioxide for these new low wavelength lasered Filco Camo keys.

I still like my acetone or the hammer test.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?2972 ... is-Made-Of

Sorry for borked attachment pics. I'd fix if I could get access.



Wow, in MY locked RIPSTER SUBFORUM I used to make sure people STAY ON TOPIC!

Here you guys bounce from topic to topic.

User avatar
7bit

02 Jun 2012, 14:42

kint wrote:My POMs never had a POM Label on the inside.
I can only confirm the ones I currently own, a set of Raptor K1, 1502, 11900 - all three are black.
none of them labeled on the inside, all slippery. All have dimples, easy to see on bigger keys, harder on 1x1 keys. All of them are deformed on the side, some more, some less.

As for 2. - I'm not sure I understood correct what you meant. maybe the pic helps:
the flat circles that are even with the surface on the bottom, (red arrows) well all my POMs have them, but also some of the PBTs (also seemingly less often) PBTs are Compaq 11800 ALT and Cherry 1800 capsL.
As for the little stems on the cross (blue arrows) K1 tab has them, as well as 11900 Enter, but also the PBT space bar of the latter.
Image

For me its still: slippery, no marking, dimples, deformed sides => most likely Cherry POM.
At least the PBT ones are marked PBT.

:-)

POM caps are only to protect the switches during transport.

Please order real key caps in the Round 4 group buy!

Thanks!

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 14:43

See!

Guess how much salt is needed to float ALL the ABS keys per 500ml of pure American Mountain Springfed Water?

-'Dr.Ripster

User avatar
Mrinterface

02 Jun 2012, 14:46


User avatar
7bit

02 Jun 2012, 14:50

@kint: Please take a picture of the inside of the righ key kap. I can see something like >P?? inside!

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 15:18

I'm telling you guys, look at a IBM spacebar closely and you can see a PBT dimple.

Not a good way of telling difference between PBT and POM.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?2972 ... is-Made-Of

Can you argue stuff with moderators here or will I be banned?

User avatar
7bit

02 Jun 2012, 15:38

ripster wrote:I'm telling you guys, look at a IBM spacebar closely and you can see a PBT dimple.

Not a good way of telling difference between PBT and POM.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?2972 ... is-Made-Of

Can you argue stuff with moderators here or will I be banned?
No, no, just argue!

Bring your coins over here and praise the Ripometer method! [1]



---------------------------------
[1] :evilgeek:

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 15:59

Please stay on topic. This is a cooking thread. I'm looking for a RECIPE for 100% success.
Salt guesses?
Last edited by ripster on 02 Jun 2012, 17:19, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Zehkul

02 Jun 2012, 16:00

Wow, you guys are slow. We solved the floating key mystery months ago in Germany. ;P

As for POM: You have to feel it, I guess. Those dimples are Cherry specific, they don’t need to be there when the keys come from another mold. Or at least they don’t have to be similarly big.

Ps: No matter how close I look, I don’t have any PBT dimples on my IBM spacebar, just a bit of shine.

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 16:10

keep looking.

http: //geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=20778&d=1310662599

how much salt?

User avatar
kint

02 Jun 2012, 16:27

7bit wrote:@kint: Please take a picture of the inside of the righ key kap. I can see something like >P?? inside!
maybe you can read spot PBT because that's what it is - the PBT space bar from a Cherry 11900 POM keyset. ;)
If you still need a pic, I'll do. :)

and, maybe I need to rephrase that:
Cherry OEM caps:
slippery + no marking + dimples + deformed sides => most likely POM.
Last edited by kint on 02 Jun 2012, 16:42, edited 1 time in total.

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 16:30

Why so hostile?

I'm the OP of this thread. please be polite.

I am talking about scientific testing generalizable to ALL brands, not just Cherry Corp.

The question posed in the OP is Salt required for a 100% accurate ABS test.

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 16:33

Btw if I were you I'd put that Brand Specific info in the Wiki under Cherry POM keys.

The trouble with putting it here is the thread floats to the bottom, like ABS keys in fresh USA mountain water.

User avatar
kint

02 Jun 2012, 16:50

ripster wrote:Why so hostile?....
No hostility in my posts - most likely just bad english from a non-native speaker. :? Or was it because of the boldness of the "+" ? whatever. A general solution for the determination of POM would be highly appreciated so fire up the lab. :) But please use scientific testing generalizable to ALL brands of water, not just fresh USA mountain water :P
as for the wiki: will do together with other content I'm collecting right now, and as soon as i figured how to write in wikis... :oops:

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 16:52

Np. I figured out you were German by your name and lots of WWII movies.

BUT to stay on Topic let's answer the OP.
ripster wrote:Salty Water test?

How much salt do you use? And IIRC many plastics have widely varying specific gravity based on injection of air and additives. Like titanium dioxide for these new low wavelength lasered Filco Camo keys.

I still like my acetone or the hammer test.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?2972 ... is-Made-Of
29.5735296 ml/2TB of normal table salt per 500ml/2cups of distilled water is too little.
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Excuse the Salt Label. My son did that. He is a big Borat friend and can assure you likes Jewish people. Sense of humor - genetic or upbringing?

Damn ABS Awesome Key. Trolling me.
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44.3602943 ml/3TB of normal table salt per 500ml/2cups of distilled water is enough for a 100% Accurate test.
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THIS is how Keyboard Science is DONE!
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I still prefer the Acetone test. Quick. 100%. Your wife doesn't yell at you for doing it on the dining room table.

User avatar
7bit

02 Jun 2012, 17:24

kint wrote:slippery + no marking + dimples + deformed sides => most likely POM.
mv POM /dev/null

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 17:45

I'm not seeing the POM dimples on my Cherry SPOS.

Am seeing it all over my IBM PBT keys.

Now... how do I move these Attachments into the MediaWiki?
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ripster

02 Jun 2012, 17:48

Posted at Reddit to make Webwit happy.

http://www.reddit.com/r/keyboards/comme ... your_keys/

Do Germans ever hang at Reddit?

User avatar
7bit

02 Jun 2012, 18:02

No, Germans only post in German forums like GeekHack, or Dutch forums like Deskthority!

ripster

02 Jun 2012, 18:06

so I guess that means I can't move images from here to WikiMedia?

?

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