Group Build prototyping phase

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Feb 2014, 09:25

the price drop is in % of steel sheet usage more than on repetition of the same design. So if we have 10 cherry MX and 4 ALPS, the alps would profit of the GB anyway. This of course has a limit since each new design involves some human labor (especially on the setup phase).

but I agree that ALPS is hard to work with due to lack of keycaps

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damorgue

19 Feb 2014, 09:31

The Dell AT10__ are probably one of the most common Alps boards.
Muirium wrote: Re: left handed numpad, I have ideas about this too. Perhaps it could centre the home row on a TKL? The main thing I prefer in a 60% is its (near) horizontal symmetry.

Lefty numpad + function row less "TKL" = Balanced 90%?
So there was no one else interested in something like a keypad/numpad?

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Feb 2014, 09:32

full numpad? would a kmac-min layout work?

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damorgue

19 Feb 2014, 09:41

Well, there are plenty of numpads, so a more irregular size would contribute something new.
Image

4x6 is your average numpad. I say something between 4x6 to 8x7 would be neat. The advantage of the one above compared to for instance a Genovation 682 or a Tipro matrix would be that it uses more standardized cap sizes, allowing you to place a numpad with the normal 2u keys and vertical 2u keys.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Feb 2014, 09:45

well, I'm all in for original stuff. it might not end up in the "default" layouts, but if you like it, go for it! :)

Actually it would be nice to have a numpad in the mix if there's enough interest. What do you think of a 6x6?

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damorgue

19 Feb 2014, 10:25

7x6 would allow you to place the navigation cluster there though. 3 extra columns is the magic number imo. I have been on the fence when it comes to Genovation 682 for years now.

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mzero

19 Feb 2014, 12:27

Hi: First of all, I have to say this is a great community. I've been learning a lot these days. Let me introduce myself, I'm web developer, analyst and my hobbies are DIY projects, photography, design, cook, etc... I'm passionate about making things better.

My only mechanical keyboard [for now], it's a Noppoo Choc 84 with reds, it's OK. But I want a smaller, and there are many options: Poker, Pure, Tex Beetle, GH60 ("in production" with many delays). After long research, I've decided to go for a Duck Mini V2 PCB + plate. The main reason to keep the 60% format is for the variety of cases that are compatible and available in the market. Also I'm right-handed and the numpad and arrows hinder me, I do have a wacon tablet (for photos and design) and I need that space.

I've studied the way I use the keyboard, the keys that I used most using the program WhatPulse. As a developer, my main work, I use:
- The arrows keys, Home, End, Delete, PgUp, PgDown
- F2: Rename, F5: Refresh, F12: Web console
- Alt Gr: My main language is Spanish, I always set my keyboard as US International Layout with Spanish language, I need to keep ~ accessible for "ñ", but I can use the [Alt Gr]+[n]
- Windows Key: [Win]+[E],[Win]+[D],[Win]+[L]
- My passwords have symbols, numbers, letters (Just to remind If I want a 40%)

I don't use:
- Caps Lock
- Right Ctrl
- Insert
- Fn Keys expect the above.

Things I'd like to add:
- Small USB Hub, 3.0 will be perfect
- A custom aluminium case.
- Anything to reduce the noise.

ANSI or ISO? No big deal for me, but I believe that there is more keycaps for ANSI... The issue is with the 1.75x R-Shift, no many.

I'd love to build another keyboard, maybe a 60% format again or smallest. Well here is my layout.
KB1110 v1.0
KB1110 v1.0
KB1110.png (70.44 KiB) Viewed 2247 times

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Muirium
µ

19 Feb 2014, 13:22

Looks sensible. If you can live without the right side mods, and like horizontal cursor keys, you've got a winner.

Just need to think about cap availability. The only keys that would give you trouble in Round 5 are Function and Tilde. Much easier to find a Control (or of course Caps Lock) labelled key; although with a custom you're in charge of what it actually does. I too use Fn there, but with Caps Lock written on the key. Red Escape is easy to share with backquote / tilde, too.

Besides Round 5, those 1.25u arrow keys would be hard to find. But your graphite colour scheme suggests that's where you're getting them from. Right?

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Feb 2014, 13:53

4 1.25u arrow keys on the same row? I don't think they would be easy to find. maybe with blanks

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Madhias
BS TORPE

19 Feb 2014, 14:10

mzero wrote:I've studied the way I use the keyboard, the keys that I used most using the program WhatPulse.
Thanks for WhatPulse, installed it right now.

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Muirium
µ

19 Feb 2014, 14:12

Image

Speaking of Round 5: it closes in a few days now. All aboard!

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mzero

19 Feb 2014, 14:14

Muirium wrote: Besides Round 5, those 1.25u arrow keys would be hard to find. But your graphite colour scheme suggests that's where you're getting them from. Right?
"Round 5" is asking for my money! It's the best option for now, but I'd like a combination with Blank and Engraved Keys, all black for my first project. I´m thinking to try to put custom stickers or paint the arrows on the sides, so that way I won't wear out. The tilde in red is available in Round 5, HONEY/TILDEBPRIME/RED, but I'll get the ESC in red just in case I change my mind

Keycaps is a big issue.

For FN, my only option is blank. And Caps Lock... useless. [L-Shift]+[R+Shift] = Caps Lock?

Another option is the following, but I cannot find a PBC neither a Plate:
KB1110-alt.png
KB1110-alt.png (26.43 KiB) Viewed 2203 times

olive

19 Feb 2014, 14:16

This one looks great. I need an insert key myself, but could probably live with it being on the Fn layer.

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Muirium
µ

19 Feb 2014, 14:19

As long as you like tall spherical caps, Round 5 is the custom keyboard builder's dream. With any luck it'll ship around the same time we're getting our plates back in this group build. (Is that manic laughter I hear on the wind from Firenza?) It's doubleshot so the legends won't wear off, but I know what you mean about adding your own decals. I'd never do that, but the front surface "ninja" method is the best option.

mohitgarg

19 Feb 2014, 15:08

On the topic of Alps, Cherry+Alps is easy enough to do, we can use Cherry switches with stabs for the few keys that are not available in fixed standards. Also I believe SP and Tai Hao can produce Alps keycaps with Cherry stems for stabs.

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Muirium
µ

19 Feb 2014, 15:35

Indeed, I've been thinking about an MX bottom row (and maybe all my mods) with an Alps alpha block. That's the thing with customs: if you want it, you can make it…

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skrsh3r

19 Feb 2014, 15:48

Doesn't sp need tooling for stab mounts on larger keys?As for tai hao no one ever actually ever asked them for about what can they make for alps, from what i see on their site they only have big ass enter keyboards.

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BimboBB

19 Feb 2014, 15:58

I would like to see a design with F-row. Kmac Mini in ISO would be nice, but even nicer would be the LZ mx mini in ISO:

Image

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Feb 2014, 16:20

we will never find a standard that makes everybody happy :)

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Ichigo87

19 Feb 2014, 16:41

It is maybe easier to use F-row with the LZ mx mini, but it's pretty ugly to see staggered keycaps followed by aligned columns. 6 rows is clearly too heavy, Kmac mini looks more compact and has something more original. And it's beautifull to see R1 SA as last row on a board like Muirium one.

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damorgue

19 Feb 2014, 16:47

The LZ MX Mini with another column would be great when it comes to standard cap sizes. The current placement of the navigation cluster makes the right shift harder to source. If it is moved one step to the right and another column is added, it would be great.

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BimboBB

19 Feb 2014, 16:53

matt3o wrote:we will never find a standard that makes everybody happy :)
thats for sure. :)


from my point of view there is just toooo many 60% boards...its getting a bit boring. And GH60 isnt even delivered yet.

the lz mix mini design is nice because its a "noppoo choc mini" design, and except from the noppoo choc mini, there is no other board (maybe some Deck Boards?) like this....so could need some love! :)

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BimboBB

19 Feb 2014, 17:07

Ichigo87 wrote:It is maybe easier to use F-row with the LZ mx mini, but it's pretty ugly to see staggered keycaps followed by aligned columns.
Usually the F-Row is always staggered....
Ichigo87 wrote: 6 rows is clearly too heavy, Kmac mini looks more compact and has something more original. And it's beautifull to see R1 SA as last row on a board like Muirium one.
Thats true.

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Feb 2014, 17:12

I'll make some other tests today and post my ideas. I agree that a pure 60% is a none-sense.

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Muirium
µ

19 Feb 2014, 17:17

So, for those of us interested in making number pads, how much do you reckon they'd cost compared to keyboards? Especially relevant for those of us thinking of a custom sized number pad in addition to a small layout keyboard…

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Feb 2014, 17:29

Muirium wrote:So, for those of us interested in making number pads, how much do you reckon they'd cost compared to keyboards? Especially relevant for those of us thinking of a custom sized number pad in addition to a small layout keyboard…
well if you go 7x6 it's just a bit smaller than a 60% and actually bigger than the lilliput keyboard. I'd like to find a cost per key since we pay laser cut service based on the number of holes (more holes=more machine time). A ballpark estimate would be around €1.50 per key, but this is pretty arbitrary at the moment. I could also try to lower the price a bit for those who order more than 1 layout, it all depends on the success of the GB. Last time we had less than 10 people participating and each one had a different layout/material, so it's hard to make an estimate at this stage.

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Icarium

19 Feb 2014, 17:29

BimboBB wrote: from my point of view there is just toooo many 60% boards...its getting a bit boring.
I agree all those boards with miniscule layout changes are massively boring. Everytime somebody says something like "I want bla in ISO" or "foo in ANSI" I want to smack them over the head.

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Muirium
µ

19 Feb 2014, 18:53

People build their own keyboards to amuse you?

The whole draw of going custom is for people to make their ideal stuff. It doesn't have to be too far out there to be worthwhile. In fact, it doesn't have to be anything…

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matt3o
-[°_°]-

19 Feb 2014, 19:01

New prototypes, no one is "standard". +1 to the first who spots the reference.

Inara
Image

River
Image

Wash
Image

Jayne
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Simon
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Jmneuv

19 Feb 2014, 19:02

Ooooh 1.25 arrow keys !! Got to remember those.

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