Cherry MX red vs topre 30g

[Select]

Now I found a thread similar to this but I do not think the questions and answers were elaborated enough.

This is my current knowledge on the matter:

1. Topre and Cherry mx red has similar bottoming out and actuation/reset points.
2. Topre is 15g lighter but has some tactility, which some say makes the light weight become subjective.

I use Keycool 84 cherry mx red with dampeners, and to me the tampeners makes the keys becomes somewhat "tactile" since after 5-6 mm travel it starts to brake because of the dampeners.

Do you think Topre 30g is a better option compared to cherry mx red if you go for ABSOLUTE the most light weight possible?

Do you think if youre a soft-touch typer (you dont really lift your fingers when you can and type within the same area of range), that topre is a better option if u want lighter weight?

How exactly does the tactility work, is it similar to dome or to a cherry keyboard?

Thank you.

[002]

The tactility on a 30g Topre is right near the top, but the resistance is very weak. I suppose if you are a soft typist as you say, you might notice it -- I don't really notice it myself. You will certainly notice that the Topre is lighter than a Cherry MX red switch, though.

Some other points:
Topre switch is quieter than Cherry MX red (unmodded)
Cherry MX red springs back quicker than the 30 Topre

Personally, I think that the Cherry MX red is better than a 30g Topre switch. In my own experience, 30g is kinda sluggish to type on and it's not nearly as satisfying as a 45g Topre.

[davkol]

derp

[Muirium]

"Rubberdome" and "membrane" are useless as ways to say "cheap assed generic keyboard". Yet they're so often used as just that.

Topre is a dome. IBM Model M is a membrane. And so are the keyboards at the office. But that junk is neither Topre nor Model M because MADNESS!

I have similar thoughts for the word "mechanical". Perhaps we should just draw the line at "shitty". That's what we always actually mean.

Anyway, light Topre and light MX are really quite different. Even so, comparing browns to 30g Topre is fairer than reds.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I don't notice this when typing on a variable weight Topre, but the 35 g switches are fairly mushy. It feels like the reduction in force brings a significantly reduction in tactility — a keyboard of all 35 g switches would not offer the Topre experience, while the heavier switches are widely praised (and potentially all the more tactile for the increased weight).

It probably does bring the 35 g switches more in line with MX Red — I don't recall them feeling like MX Brown, which has a faint but precise tactile point.

[Select]

"Ummm, are you sure it's 5-6 mm?"

Whops, ofc there is 4 mm travel so I mean 1-2 MM

Perhaps it is a consideration, even as a cherry MX user, that "lighter weight doesnt necessarily mean softer touch/key stroke"

Cuz essentially, as you said, the "reset" force is just as important in typing speed as typing force, right? And I heard you said to be claiming that topre has a very soft reset, thus you need to "release" more force with fingers to be able to perform the next keystroke.

With this in mind, do you then believe the cherry mx red delivers reset-force compared to the other cherry mx switches?

For instance, maybe I should consider getting black switches over red. Blue or Brown switches may also be good since the reset-force might be stronger, but its gonna proove difficult to double tap.

[Select]

If you could compare cherry mx brown with any topre switch, which would be better and why?

[Muirium]

"lighter weight doesnt necessarily mean softer touch/key stroke"

Cuz essentially, as you said, the "reset" force is just as important in typing speed as typing force, right? And I heard you said to be claiming that topre has a very soft reset, thus you need to "release" more force with fingers to be able to perform the next keystroke.

With this in mind, do you then believe the cherry mx red delivers reset-force compared to the other cherry mx switches?

The stronger the spring in a Cherry MX, or the stronger the dome in a Topre, the quicker the switch will spring back up to "top out". But it's not significant in my experience. Your fingers feel the difference in force between heavy and light switches much more on the way down than the way up. You're basically just letting go.

It's not like the switches launch you on your fingers' flight to the next keys. Heavy switches take more effort to type on because you're pushing against their resistance on the way down far more than anything they're kicking back to you on the way up.

Some people (like me) type better on heavy switches. For me, I make more mistakes on light ones. I trip them accidentally far too often to benefit from their theoretically greater speed. My buckling springs aren't quicker because my fingers are bouncing off them! They're quicker because I get into the flow.

[davkol]

derp

[Select]

any possibility you can send link, davkol? Thanks!

[Game Theory]

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38464.0

[Select]

It makes sense, but I guess it is about figured how much force I apply when I am typing/playing at "average" force and relaxation, thus being able to conclude whether blacks are necessary instead of reds.

Although, im still curious if id do better with topre. However I am exactly interested in as many words per minute as possible, so im not entirely sure about it of course.

[002]

You can still be fast with Topre...(Realforce 106) -- skip to 5:08

I don't think switch type really plays such an important factor when it comes to WPM, although I certainly can't speak from experience, as I'm not particularly fast.

[Select]

Thanks for the video, but I am not sure it helps me in the situation.

I am willing to spend 500 dollars now if it means that 1 of the keyboards I get are just slightly better than before. But if not it would be kinda wasteful, especially because im not sure I can get them sold again here in europe very easily.

I think about the issue with bottoming out and having more release force really depends on the force you put in with your fingers. About 80% of the time I apply enough force to bottom every key out very hard. This should mean if I used blacks instead of reds, the key would travel less but still apply actuation. Maybe the key would travel slower because of the weight difference.

Right now my top 1 list for keyboards to try are:

1. Topre 45 or 55g (Maybe 55g cuz more force better release, no need to bottom out)
2. Cherry MX black
3. Cherry MX brown

Ill probably get an MX black and MX brown keycool 84 keyboard for around 300 dollars and topre for 200-300

[davkol]

derp

[Muirium]

I think you're thinking of µTRON…

[davkol]

derp

[Muirium]

That's surely true. The only place where switch reset speed could seriously enter the equation would be on one of these:

The BAT keyboard!

Anyway, if I had half a grand for keyboards, I'd get a µTRON. That or a HiPro. Why spend top dollar on investigating Keycools?

[Select]

I believe those rounded keyboards are illegal in SC2 and, essentially, the CTRL and alt keys are way off and the spacing is bad.

While I like the diea of a "curved" or "rounded" keyboard, it is not worth it compared to standard mechanicals.

Now the hipro looks interesting... Whats the difference to those and topre exactly?

[002]

The HiPro is just a Topre keyboard with tall, spherical caps. The switch design is different too, as you can see on the link Muirium posted. Come to think of it, I don't think anyone has bothered to take a HiPro switch apart and get good pictures...something for me to do this weekend I suppose

[Muirium]

Oh, your Nissho? (Assuming I spelled it right. Another fine hi profile Topre board.)

Ergo keyboards are barred in some game then… yikes. Why, because they fear their players being comfortable?

[002]

I have the Nissho but it's in really good condition so I'd rather not take it apart. I'll take the Hatsuko apart instead

[davkol]

derp

[Select]

Well besides, I kinda use every single key on the keyboard when I play. At least I use ALL the 50 keys to the left side of a keyboard about every minute, at least 1 of them.

Therefore the rounded keyboards are kinda useless since there is so much space to other essential keys. Unless there is a keyboard with 5 fucntion keys, Control, shift and alt and 50 other keys at 1 side it might be doable.

[davkol]

derp