feedback for bram

[irnuclear]

hello i dont know about you guys but i would personally love to see (and purchase 2 myself) the following.

a cm storm quickfire TK in green switches with 3 changes.
1) usb 3.0 and audio passthroughs (see gigabyte aivia osmium)
2) a volume rocker (see corsair k70)
3) rgb backlighting (see corsairs rgb k70 @ ces 2014)

please please please! it would be keyboard heaven

also as side note i do tend to like LEDs on everything from my case to my keyboard an mouse even my headset which is the cm storm sirus 5.1 however i feel most of the products on the market dont offer enough flexibility..mice tend to be getting better about it. what i mean by flexibility is all these items with LEDs should have options to at least turn them off if not also be able to adjust the brightness and you should also have the option to choose ANY color of desire.

anyways this post was directed at CM Bram as some customer feedback since i always see him asking customers what they would like to see i would also like to thank you for doing so. its nice to see a company that takes interest in what their customers actually want.

[Muirium]

I'm sure he'll like it. The usual feedback he gets from us here is "nnnnnooooooooo backlights!!!"

I know what you mean about the better configurability of LEDs on mice and other gear. They live right below the surface, and can be RGB LEDs. On keyboards, though, MX switches only allow LEDs at the base of the cap (or underneath the switch entirely), so the lighting is less even because the LED is far away. (Also RGB backlighting on MX is Corsair's exclusive this year, thanks to a deal with Cherry.) Lastly, keyboards have at least 60 keys, and often more than 100, so there's a lot more complexity in how to use the lights.

[irnuclear]

well the way i see it is if theres enough demand for this keyboard design its gonna take a little time anyhow so silver lining is at least corsair only has exclusive rights for this year i really like cm storm products im becoming a bit of a fanboy.. however i have to say they dont have my perfect mouse yet and i am a little disappointed with my headset.. im about to send it out for the 2nd time... the first one stopped producing audio from one of the drivers after 3 months and i got it replaced and after 2 months the mic has stopped working maybe i just got unlucky

[Bramster]

Hi irnuclear!

Thanks for the feedback! Very good and we are always open for feedback like this !! Me personally at home also use the QF TK and absolutely love the little thing !

And like Muirium says most tend to go for no backlight! But good to see that you are really into backlight! RGB on a cherry switch will be difficult since that is a Corsair exclusive this year. There are other options of course but not for this year and not for a Cherry switch.

Haha, good to see a fanboy, always nice !! But what about the two new mice? Mizar and Alcor, maybe those are something for you? Any audio issues you might indeed just had bad luck, sorry for that! Which model headset is it? You can also always contact us directly for support, check your box for the email to send it to

[Grendel]

Well, if you must do backlights, please, run the PWM at 6-7kHz+. The stroboscopic effects from pretty much any board on the market using PWM to control LED brightness are extremely annoying (to me) and defeat the purpose I would like to use it for -- illuminating the legends in low light settings. TG3 did it right w/ their boards for police cruisers, Deck (also TG3) did it right w/ their old Legend boards, WASD does it right w/ the Code. Ducky's are among the worst (even after the latest FW upped the frequency).

[Muirium]

Yup. My Shine 3 is a bit better after the firmware update (which involved taking it to a friend's as it's a Windows app of course…) but the strobing is still noticeable to a sensitive sort like me. Bearable if only a handful of keys are lit. Even better if none at all!

PWM is the only way to dim LEDs, as far as I know. This is their disadvantage in lighting. Even my bike light does it.

[cookie]

@irnuclear: Which OS are you using? Long time ago I looked for a compact keyboard with media controls (Volume, Mute, Next Track etc.) But once I got used to volumouse (Windows only) dedicated multimedia buttons are history

@Bram Programmable 60% boards would be nice! Don't be shy! Equip some known CS/DOTA/LOL Teams with those "Pro Looking" keyboards and kids will follow for sure!!!

[imbattable]

PWM is the only way to dim LEDs, as far as I know. This is their disadvantage in lighting. Even my bike light does it.

No, you can either dim them by PWM or CCR (constant current regulation/reduction). Dell uses this in their UH2713M Monitors, and it is awesome, because you have no flickering whatsoever.

(A) source for PWM/CCR:
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocument ... p_Note.pdf

[Muirium]

But in a matrix?

My understanding is that, just like how keyswitches are polled by column and row, keyboards like the Shine 3 cycle through all their LEDs sequentially.

[CeeSA]

@cookie
I think 60% (like Poker 2) are not optimal for gaming. 75% (like Noppoo Mini) with the short way to F keys are better for gamers.
And even you have a programmable controller it is nice to have more keys available. Also beside the optic there is no benefit in having less keys.

[cookie]

60% is actually superior over a fullsize or tenkeyless.
It is better for the posture and I almost never hit the keyboard with my mouse in stressfull situations.

Never had problems playing on a 60% board.
I mostly play Shooter, MOBA, RPGs but verry little RTS.
RTS games is the only genre where I actually needed fast access to my F keys.

[CeeSA]

better for the posture? lol Are you kidding? What do you mean?

For hitting a keyboard during gaming the only factor is the width. 60% and 75% are the same width.

[JBert]

Most > 60% keyboards tack on keys to the right, so they are wider. If you have seen a available keyboard which really cuts off to the right of the alpha block, please do tell.

I proposed this layout in Mateo's next Custom keyboard group buy, but not too much reaction:


Granted, the mess of Fn layered stuff might throw you off, but with a programmeable controller anything can be changed.

[Muirium]

It's an ISO Poker with vestigial function keys. Put them on the left instead like the Korean cool kids!

[Findecanor]

TG3 did it right w/ their boards for police cruisers, Deck (also TG3) did it right w/ their old Legend boards

TG3 did not use PWM but direct drive, AFAIK.

No, you can either dim them by PWM or CCR (constant current regulation/reduction).

There is a lower bound on current regulation where the LED will cut off. PWM does not have that limit.

PWM is not only used to dim LEDs. If you want individually addressable LEDs for various effects or if you want to limit current draw then you need a matrix, and using a matrix means that you get flickering LEDs.

Classic PWM has a fixed duty-cycle frequency, so that you could use a low-pass filter adjusted to that frequency to get an analogue signal out. With LEDs you don't need to have a fixed duty cycle, so you could use a pattern instead.
For instance, 50% brightness with eight strobes max per duty cycle, instead of emitting 11110000 (time->) you could emit 10101010.
You could also shift the pattern between LEDs so that the entire keyboard does not blink in unison.

[CeeSA]

@ JBert - I do not know wether I understand you corret.
I assume you think about TKL boards which imo are 80% boards.

I compared 60% (Poker) and 75% (noppoo choc mini) boards with the same width.

In keys: 61, 84, and 87.
And 61 and 84 are both approximately 30cm in width.

Tenkeyless with 87 keys are wider of course.

[Grendel]

TG3 did it right w/ their boards for police cruisers, Deck (also TG3) did it right w/ their old Legend boards

TG3 did not use PWM but direct drive, AFAIK.

Correct. So does WASD w/ the Code boards.

Another application for PWM is to reduce power usage. Carefully designed patterns allow for having only a certain percentage of LED's lit at any given time.

I have successfully used fixed duty cycle PWM w/ very little stroboscopic effects by using a ~8kHz cycle frequency.

[Muirium]

Cool. Been driving your own LED matrix?

The idea of individually addressed LEDs appealed to me before I even heard of and then got a Ducky Shine 3. In practice, I'm not sure what real purpose to put it to. Reactive lighting mode seems like a good idea, and perhaps it'd be more informative with a gradual fade, say minutes instead of seconds, with a similarly gradual buildup, too. The Shine 3's goes straight to 100% on key press. I'd rather an additive system, so you can see a dynamic heatmap of your typing instead.

[JBert]

@ JBert - I do not know wether I understand you corret.
I assume you think about TKL boards which imo are 80% boards.

Oh alright, I admit that I was confused by all the numbers. Everything > 60% becomes messy fast as all those numbers cannot really describe where all the buttons are.

If I want to split hairs though, the Noppoo choc mini isn't the same width as a Poker, it's 1u wider.

It's an ISO Poker with vestigial function keys. Put them on the left instead like the Korean cool kids!

Thanks, but it is 3.25u wider, has no F11 or F12 and is now assymetric on the left (though in all honesty my proposed layout was never meant to be 100% symmetrical). So I tend to politely disagree, it's not vestigial for what I intend to use it for. Why push the mouse away (and I sometimes put it on the left) when there's so much depth left unexplored?

When I want an XT layout, I'll just use the real thing, sound included.
I never use the XT for programming though.

In practice, I'm not sure what real purpose to put it to.

To hypnotize you (NSFW) and buy more keyboards!

[cookie]

better for the posture? lol Are you kidding? What do you mean?

For hitting a keyboard during gaming the only factor is the width. 60% and 75% are the same width.

Well I mean that you don't need to place your KB far away from the mouse to avoid colision.
And a 60% board is a little bit shorter in width than a 75%, it's not a big deal especially if you need dedicated FKeys.

But as I said, I switched from TKL to 60% and never had problems, I like it more then the tenkeyless tbh

Everything is better than a fullsize board!!!

[irnuclear]

@cookie i just personally like the volume rocker on the keyboard i actually have a roccat kone+ and it has very nice media control options with the easyshift but its a laser mouse and i come to realize i like optical better.. also i dont much care for roccats drivers

@everyone else c'mon guys thats nice input and all but who wants to back me on this quickfire TK? :D show of hands for the creation of this little beast

@Bram i have to admit when i first saw the alcor it looked great.. very promising the only issue is i have really taken interest in the pixart 3310 sensor it seems very customizable being able to turn angle snapping on or off and choosing how strong the effect is as well as being able to adjust angle tuning. i hear the alcor will be running the 3090 so if you guys ever put out a version of it with the 3310 count me sold. i dont know how others feel but i love options. i understand that from a low cost contender the added features wouldnt make sense but on a premium product i bet everyone would be okay with LEDs in their products provided its implemented properly and isnt like "this is the color it is if you want to turn it off you can" kind of thing...options thats where its at "dont like this color? well pick another and pick from this WIDE variety not just red or blue. oh you want to turn it off np turn it off or even just dim it or maybe you want certain parts to light up and not others" as for the headset it is a CM storm sirus 5.1 and i am going to have to contact someone about a replacement as its still under warranty. lastly i understand about corsair having the rights to the RGB cherry switches for the year but hey if you guys put this keyboard out i dont care if its next year or the year after and i already bought a keyboard im gonna sell it on ebay and instantly buy 2 quickfire TK RGBs

[irnuclear]

@Bram i know this is off subject but i have a cm storm trooper case and i really want the window side panel for it but it seems it isnt in stock anywhere in the US... is it not being sold anymore? i seen its available on the EU site but with shipping im looking at around $90

[Bramster]

@Bram i know this is off subject but i have a cm storm trooper case and i really want the window side panel for it but it seems it isnt in stock anywhere in the US... is it not being sold anymore? i seen its available on the EU site but with shipping im looking at around $90

True it should be available globally. If you really want to know send me a PM and I can check with US team if they have any incoming or what I can do for you.


@all about a 60% keyboard.
Wouldnt you miss the arrow keys and F keys on a 60% board? I know it would be ideally for taking in a backpack but a normal TKL like our Rapid should also do the trick for that right?

[davkol]

derp

[Broadmonkey]

True, an F-row and arrow keys are very nice to have, especially since the F-row can be used for multimedia functions and other shortcuts as most manufactures do, and marked the keyboard on.

The benefits of a 60% is to gain space vertically, so you can have the keyboard closer to the monitor stand or laptop, and to gain space horizontally to be able to have the mouse closer to the alpha characters.
60% is however not ideal in any way. The heavy reliance on FN layers is not something everybody like and it is never apparent where the eg. arrowkeys are located or how to use them.

A 65% adds just a single column of keys but gain dedicated arrow keys, delete, and thus makes it much easier to use out of the box, while possessing almost the same space saving qualities as a 60%.

65%.png (16.49 KiB) Viewed 6827 times

Why then do people like the 60%? two reasons.
If you are willing to learn and use arrow keys (and others) on an FN layer, you can keep your hands on the home row.
Secondly, it can have the exact same bottomrow as a Filco, which I believe is why most want a 60%. In other words, because it is easier to obtain keycaps that fit. 65% is not as easy in that regard.

[Bramster]

.....

True, what I personally most miss on a TKL or even a 60% is a numpad enter.. I hit that key so many times without noticing.. (When I dont have it I do notice it).. But that is personal I guess and has to do with getting used to..

[Muirium]

Oddly enough, I wanted that key on my 60% too…



Re: Broadmonkey and 65 vs 60%s, I don't like 65s because of the aesthetics. They look like a compromised design to me. I like 60s for their purity, and layers come natural to me so that's that.

Besides, for symmetry I'm more interested in adding things to the left of the keyboard than the right.

[Bramster]

Oddly enough, I wanted that key on my 60% too…

Re: Broadmonkey and 65 vs 60%s, I don't like 65s because of the aesthetics. They look like a compromised design to me. I like 60s for their purity, and layers come natural to me so that's that.

Besides, for symmetry I'm more interested in adding things to the left of the keyboard than the right.

Alright that is exactly my kind of 60% then haha! And the arrow keys? You dont miss them?

(I use a CM QF TK at home and have it on numpad mode always so dont use the arrows)
http://www.cmstorm.com/en/products/keyb ... ickfiretk/

[Muirium]

I have HHKB style arrows. Hold the Fun key (right of right Shift) and there they are. In fact, I even have an inverted T down on the mods. Here's my original master plan:

Spoiler:

I've simplified it a bit since: less layers, just the practical stuff. Need to redo the diagram. But the arrow keys are still there.

[Bramster]

I have HHKB style arrows. Hold the Fun key (right of right Shift) and there they are. In fact, I even have an inverted T down on the mods. Here's my original master plan:

Spoiler:

I've simplified it a bit since: less layers, just the practical stuff. Need to redo the diagram. But the arrow keys are still there.

How is your switching through all the layers btw?