Cartesian Longboard - 70% Matrix

altercation

15 Feb 2015, 01:00

I haven't posted here as often as other boards, so wanted to make sure I got this up on Deskthority since I've spent so much time reviewing matt3o's posts and how-tos.

Inspired by the planck and atomic builds I finished recently, I took the next step and designed a plate for hand wiring. Key design constraints:
  • Hand placement should be symmetrical. Off center hand placement, often unavoidable, is irritating (particularly if keyboard is perched over a laptop keyboard)
  • 60-70%
  • Matrix layout
  • Thumb-key centric
  • Key switches to remain fully accessible for spring/slider replacement
  • Minimal height (currently 8mm top plat to bottom plate gap, will do a 6mm next time)
  • Integrated usb hub
I learned a lot and it has served as an excellent prototype for future revisions and variations that I'm working on now.

Note that I've settled on SA+Clears for the time being, though the build shots show DSA+Reds.
Here's the end result:

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A shot from the base plate:

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Switches are all modifiable while soldered in place:

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User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

15 Feb 2015, 09:20

great build, thanks for sharing!

altercation

15 Feb 2015, 20:37

matt3o wrote: great build, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for everything you've posted on DT. I'm pretty sure I've read every one of your posts more than once :D Invaluable resources.

jacobolus

16 Feb 2015, 11:56

Nice work, looks great!

Have any of the fans of standard-ish matrix layout keyboards put up a review after typing on one for a few months about how they liked it compared to a standard keyboard? It’s always seemed to me like the actual finger motions required are as bad (or slightly worse even) than a standard Sholes stagger layout, from a speed/accuracy/comfort perspective.... with of course the additional disadvantage of being non-standard and requiring a fairly steep learning curve. The Typematrix and similar keyboards have extra columns in the middle as one selling point, expanding the distance between hands and giving the index fingers some extra keys to press, but layouts like this one or the Planck don’t. With the inclusion of some 2u keys, this also doesn’t avoid the need for stabilizers, like some new keyboards I’ve seen.

What are the goals of the layout? Is it mostly an aesthetic thing, or maybe there’s some advantage to a pure matrix layout for video game shortcuts or something? Isn’t it uncomfortable to have the right shift so far away? What fingering do you use for the various keys?

Hope I don’t sound too negative. I’m quite genuinely curious what the attraction is of these layouts.

User avatar
Stabilized

16 Feb 2015, 12:35

I saw this on Reddit and immediately thought of asking this question, I didn't because I have very little knowledge in ergonomic advantages of keyboards (QWERTY and normal stagger amount)

Oh, and that's a very beautiful keyboard, I am glad you took the time to get the name of the keyboard etched into the black finish, gives it a great deal of retro appeal in my eyes :)
I also enjoy how tidy you made the connections on all the keys, but personally I would have put sides on this thing.

altercation

16 Feb 2015, 18:45

jacobolus wrote: Nice work, looks great!

Have any of the fans of standard-ish matrix layout keyboards put up a review after typing on one for a few months about how they liked it compared to a standard keyboard? It’s always seemed to me like the actual finger motions required are as bad (or slightly worse even) than a standard Sholes stagger layout, from a speed/accuracy/comfort perspective.... with of course the additional disadvantage of being non-standard and requiring a fairly steep learning curve. The Typematrix and similar keyboards have extra columns in the middle as one selling point, expanding the distance between hands and giving the index fingers some extra keys to press, but layouts like this one or the Planck don’t. With the inclusion of some 2u keys, this also doesn’t avoid the need for stabilizers, like some new keyboards I’ve seen.

What are the goals of the layout? Is it mostly an aesthetic thing, or maybe there’s some advantage to a pure matrix layout for video game shortcuts or something? Isn’t it uncomfortable to have the right shift so far away? What fingering do you use for the various keys?

Hope I don’t sound too negative. I’m quite genuinely curious what the attraction is of these layouts.
I think it's a very reasonable question. First, let me note that I don't think the staggered keyboard is much more than standardized convention, much like qwerty.

I've been typing on matrix for a couple months now (planck, atomic, and now this board). It's six of one, half dozen of the other as far as I'm concerned. The key layout is much less of an impact that, say, switch selection in my experience. I find the key positioning to be not much different than changing to a keyboard with a slightly different key pitch.

So basically, matrix is neither an advantage or disadvantage for me. When I occasionally am typing on a staggered keyboard it doesn't prove to be much of a problem or difference.

The matrix layout was a convenient design constraint for my first from scratch keyboard. My next from scratch plate is staggered. I care much more about the the thumb keys and symmetry than matrix/non-matrix.

Hope that clarifies some. I don't see any mystery or magic about matrix. It's just a slightly different pitch to me.

altercation

16 Feb 2015, 18:52

Stabilized wrote: I saw this on Reddit and immediately thought of asking this question, I didn't because I have very little knowledge in ergonomic advantages of keyboards (QWERTY and normal stagger amount)

Oh, and that's a very beautiful keyboard, I am glad you took the time to get the name of the keyboard etched into the black finish, gives it a great deal of retro appeal in my eyes :)
I also enjoy how tidy you made the connections on all the keys, but personally I would have put sides on this thing.
I will be putting sides on the next prototype. I didn't do that on this unit intentionally for cost reasons. Next unit will incorporate changes I made to the design based on this unit and will be more a finished product.

User avatar
rsbseb
-Horned Rabbit-

17 Feb 2015, 08:08

I need this keyboard with an extra row. Very nice, I kind of wish I had gone this direction with my build. Maybe next time around.

altercation

17 Feb 2015, 18:33

rsbseb wrote: I need this keyboard with an extra row. Very nice, I kind of wish I had gone this direction with my build. Maybe next time around.
Like these? (my pre-production designs, I've since revised the bottom row):

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User avatar
rsbseb
-Horned Rabbit-

18 Feb 2015, 07:39

Yes, similar to the first one but without a gutter space at the top and with double 1u columns to the left for F-keys (my extra row would be for additional alpha keys). I wont hijack your thread with a layout I would consider for myself.
I will say that as far as minimalist boards go, yours is the most appealing I've seen. Definitely a functional work of art. ;)
I could see your board as you have built, a "Daily Driver" at my desk.

altercation

18 Feb 2015, 21:55

rsbseb wrote: Yes, similar to the first one but without a gutter space at the top and with double 1u columns to the left for F-keys (my extra row would be for additional alpha keys). I wont hijack your thread with a layout I would consider for myself.
I will say that as far as minimalist boards go, yours is the most appealing I've seen. Definitely a functional work of art. ;)
I could see your board as you have built, a "Daily Driver" at my desk.
I'd actually like to know more about other's preferred layouts. I'm revising my designs and am going to produce another prototype soon. Along with it I hope to release a series of variations for plate production.

User avatar
rsbseb
-Horned Rabbit-

19 Feb 2015, 09:45

My preferences are certainly not for the masses and probably not for anyone else for that matter but since you asked...
It wouldn't be as elegant as yours but would suit my needs.

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