Cherry MX old vs. new
- sixty
- Gasbag Guru
- Main keyboard: DKSaver
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Black
- DT Pro Member: 0060
There has already been a rumor since years that older MX switches are much better than new ones. Material tests have confirmed that MX switches changed sometime between 1994 and 1995. Spring material as well as case construction slightly changed. Some Korean collectors go as far as calling the currently available MX switches utter garbage. While I never really noticed much of a difference besides on black switches, I always found it annoying that there is no easy way to tell them apart.
Turns out there is! A friend told me today that the older switches have a wider logo while the newer ones have a narrow logo. I checked it out and it turns out to be true. You can ignore the stem colors in the following pics, though that is an interesting subtle change too.. heh
Check the logos!
Turns out there is! A friend told me today that the older switches have a wider logo while the newer ones have a narrow logo. I checked it out and it turns out to be true. You can ignore the stem colors in the following pics, though that is an interesting subtle change too.. heh
Check the logos!
- keyboardlover
- Location: USA, Greatest Country in the World.
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-3494 Modded (home)/Realforce 87U (work)
- Main mouse: Handshoe Ergonomic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Cherry Ergo Lite Clears
- DT Pro Member: -
Cool! Nice research.
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- Main keyboard: Tipro split
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
I've got an older blue-based board (with the wide lettering) that feels quite a bit smoother than my 2010 one. Don't know if it's down to wear or different materials, but I'm guessing the latter (the old board didn't seem to ever have been used).
Edit: Just noticed that the older switch 'rolls out' of the reset point smoother than the new one (when released). The new one feels like it sticks or something.
Edit: Just noticed that the older switch 'rolls out' of the reset point smoother than the new one (when released). The new one feels like it sticks or something.
Last edited by intealls on 14 Feb 2011, 22:16, edited 1 time in total.
- kidchunks
- Main keyboard: HHKB all day everyday!
- Main mouse: L-Trac
- Favorite switch: BS
- DT Pro Member: -
Great find sixty, so I take it the prices of older boards would sky rocket as a result? WTB OLD MX SWITCHES!
I'll be sure to test my dolch and rosewill to see if I notice a difference (dolch may feel worn).
I'll be sure to test my dolch and rosewill to see if I notice a difference (dolch may feel worn).
- Minskleip
- Location: Norway
- Main keyboard: HHKB Pro 2
- Main mouse: CM Sentinel Storm
- Favorite switch: Buckling spring
- DT Pro Member: -
Yeah I've noticed that too (except that I haven't tried an old cherry apparently). I'm looking forward to try my old clear switches in a board nowintealls wrote:Edit: Just noticed that the older switch 'rolls out' of the reset point smoother than the new one (when released). The new one feels like it sticks or something.
- Crazy9000
- Main keyboard: G-Tune Realforce 108B-MP
- Main mouse: Steelseries Xai
- Favorite switch: Topre
- DT Pro Member: -
So the old switches used 301 stainless, and the newer ones use 304. Theoretically the 304 is a better stainless steel, but not sure how that applys to springs in cherry keys :p. I think the 301 works better for springs, which is probably why the Koreans prefer the older switches.
http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=1150
http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=1150
- sixty
- Gasbag Guru
- Main keyboard: DKSaver
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Black
- DT Pro Member: 0060
Interesting! I never actually looked further into the information about the steel types. Now I wonder if this is what also caused "the geekhack spring" to fail and make a weird sound. Still on that order, still looking to get it done soon. Will probably outsource it to another company, the guys I currently work with are slacking a bit too much.
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- Location: Ugly American
- Main keyboard: As Long As It is Helvetica
- Main mouse: Mickey
- Favorite switch: Wanna Switch? Well, I Certainly Did!
- DT Pro Member: -
If Koreans like older things better than newer ones why do all the Girl Bands look so young?
I remain skeptical. Sounds like internet hearsay.
I remain skeptical. Sounds like internet hearsay.
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- Location: Ugly American
- Main keyboard: As Long As It is Helvetica
- Main mouse: Mickey
- Favorite switch: Wanna Switch? Well, I Certainly Did!
- DT Pro Member: -
Yeah - some people don't know how to do the research and listen to Cherry Corp Reps saying they reserve the best stuff for themselves.
This one for example is definitely more blue.
I can tell this despite the piss poor lighting.
This one for example is definitely more blue.
I can tell this despite the piss poor lighting.
- sixty
- Gasbag Guru
- Main keyboard: DKSaver
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Black
- DT Pro Member: 0060
Also, when I asked them I was told that the material change was not to save costs, but rather to make the switches more durable to corrosion. Kinda questionable decision, considering that if you spill liquid into a switch you are likely still fucked anyway, corrosion following or not.
- webwit
- Wild Duck
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: Model F62
- Favorite switch: IBM beam spring
- DT Pro Member: 0000
- Contact:
The spring constant k is function of the spring geometry and the spring material's shear modulus G,
where G is found from the material's elastic modulus E and Poisson ratio n,
and D is the mean diameter of the spring (measured from the centers of the wire cross-sections),
Source
where G is found from the material's elastic modulus E and Poisson ratio n,
and D is the mean diameter of the spring (measured from the centers of the wire cross-sections),
Source
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- Main keyboard: Tipro split
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Blue
- DT Pro Member: -
Assuming that the spring is shaped identically in both switches, this would mean that the old and new switch would have the exact same spring constant. At least according to the data found here and here. No regarded variables differ between the steel types. This kind of makes sense, since the spring constant tells us how much force is needed to expand or depress it (I think?), which should be the same for both switches.
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- Location: Ugly American
- Main keyboard: As Long As It is Helvetica
- Main mouse: Mickey
- Favorite switch: Wanna Switch? Well, I Certainly Did!
- DT Pro Member: -
Tell the Koreans to put some nickels on it.
Once again, I seriously doubt the spring steel makes the difference between ZOMG Vintage Blues and today's switches.
Reminds me of that whole Cherry Dark Versus Light Brown thing.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=84 ... own+cherry
IIRC the asians didn't like my answer there either.
Once again, I seriously doubt the spring steel makes the difference between ZOMG Vintage Blues and today's switches.
Reminds me of that whole Cherry Dark Versus Light Brown thing.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=84 ... own+cherry
IIRC the asians didn't like my answer there either.
- webwit
- Wild Duck
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: Model F62
- Favorite switch: IBM beam spring
- DT Pro Member: 0000
- Contact:
The difference is as much as the difference between the Topre 45g switches in the Topre HHKB and those in the Topre Realforce. The rubber for the Realforce is harvested from the famous volcanic plants on Mount Fuji, from at least 2000m above sea level once every five years during the four week raining season. The ordinary Topres are harvested from ordinary rubber trees which grow in the valleys on the east side of the mountain.
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- Location: San Antonio, TX
- Main keyboard: Noppoo Choc Mini
- Favorite switch: Cherry Brown
- DT Pro Member: -
Well played.webwit wrote:The difference is as much as the difference between the Topre 45g switches in the Topre HHKB and those in the Topre Realforce. The rubber for the Realforce is harvested from the famous volcanic plants on Mount Fuji, from at least 2000m above sea level once every five years during the four week raining season. The ordinary Topres are harvested from ordinary rubber trees which grow in the valleys on the east side of the mountain
To be clear, the domes on the HHKB are molded on different machinery (as evidenced by differently shaped vents and mounting holes). They still harvest the material from the waistbands of the Vestial Virgins' panties whose cherries have been popped.
- webwit
- Wild Duck
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: Model F62
- Favorite switch: IBM beam spring
- DT Pro Member: 0000
- Contact:
They fart differently?itlnstln wrote:as evidenced by differently shaped vents and mounting holes
- Moogle Stiltzkin
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-1295 HAU NKRO Cherry Mx Black
- Main mouse: Logitech G500
- Favorite switch: Cherry Mx Brown
- DT Pro Member: -
How can there be such a huge difference :/ i don't buy it's drastically different. Probably just placebo.
The only vintage thing i liked about the keyboards was probably better casings compared to modern Cherry ones, and the obviously superior Cherry doubleshot and dye subbed keys.
The only vintage thing i liked about the keyboards was probably better casings compared to modern Cherry ones, and the obviously superior Cherry doubleshot and dye subbed keys.
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- Location: San Antonio, TX
- Main keyboard: Noppoo Choc Mini
- Favorite switch: Cherry Brown
- DT Pro Member: -
When you're working on such small devices, slight changes can have a noticeable impact. Even something like an extra coil in a spiring can change the resistance of a switch to where to might notice.
I'm no physicist, but I liken it to why a hockey goalie plays far out from the net on a penalty shot or a breakaway. The goalie doesn't have to move as much to block large sight lines on the net (in perspective to the puck handler). Similar to the switch. A small change in mechanics, and in turn, feel, transmitted through the key stem, key cap, and finally to your (fairly sensitive) finger can be at least noticeable, if not significant.
I know, I know the hockey analogy sucks.
I'm no physicist, but I liken it to why a hockey goalie plays far out from the net on a penalty shot or a breakaway. The goalie doesn't have to move as much to block large sight lines on the net (in perspective to the puck handler). Similar to the switch. A small change in mechanics, and in turn, feel, transmitted through the key stem, key cap, and finally to your (fairly sensitive) finger can be at least noticeable, if not significant.
I know, I know the hockey analogy sucks.
- keyboardlover
- Location: USA, Greatest Country in the World.
- Main keyboard: Cherry G80-3494 Modded (home)/Realforce 87U (work)
- Main mouse: Handshoe Ergonomic Mouse
- Favorite switch: Cherry Ergo Lite Clears
- DT Pro Member: -
The older the switch the sweeter the feel.
Cherry switches age like fine wine
Cherry switches age like fine wine
- turbocharged
- Main keyboard: Deck Legend Fire
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 5000
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Black
- DT Pro Member: -
Corrosion isn't just about spilling liquids...humidity in the air plays a huge factor towards corrosion. At work when we finish cleaning an engine block in solvent, all the machined surfaces must be wiped with oil to prevent surface rusting...just from being open to the air.sixty wrote:Also, when I asked them I was told that the material change was not to save costs, but rather to make the switches more durable to corrosion. Kinda questionable decision, considering that if you spill liquid into a switch you are likely still fucked anyway, corrosion following or not.
Also, 304 stainless is more corrosion resistant (higher chromium and nickel content) than 301 stainless and does indeed cost more.
- turbocharged
- Main keyboard: Deck Legend Fire
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 5000
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Black
- DT Pro Member: -
In my last post I meant 310 stainless, not 304....however what I wrote is still true of 304 stainless as well.
- sixty
- Gasbag Guru
- Main keyboard: DKSaver
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Black
- DT Pro Member: 0060
I guess it indeed was just to reduce costs then, and the corrosion story was made up to hide that fact
turbocharged, do you work in this kinda business? What would you consider the optimal material for springs? Since I am changing the production on "the geekhack spring", maybe you can suggest a material.
turbocharged, do you work in this kinda business? What would you consider the optimal material for springs? Since I am changing the production on "the geekhack spring", maybe you can suggest a material.
- turbocharged
- Main keyboard: Deck Legend Fire
- Main mouse: Mionix Naos 5000
- Favorite switch: Cherry MX Black
- DT Pro Member: -
I'm getting my Masters in Mechanical Engineering (will graduate this December). I know a good deal about the properties of metals and how to spec. out springs for a given application (at least as far as style, dimensions, and spring constants go), but I don't know that much about why one spring material is better than another...other than reasons like corrosion resistance and cost.sixty wrote:I guess it indeed was just to reduce costs then, and the corrosion story was made up to hide that fact
turbocharged, do you work in this kinda business? What would you consider the optimal material for springs? Since I am changing the production on "the geekhack spring", maybe you can suggest a material.
Let me look into it a bit more.
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- Location: Ugly American
- Main keyboard: As Long As It is Helvetica
- Main mouse: Mickey
- Favorite switch: Wanna Switch? Well, I Certainly Did!
- DT Pro Member: -
ATS34 or VG10 FTW!
However I'm still skeptical it makes all that much difference in these Blue Cherries.
Gives collectors something to talk about.
However I'm still skeptical it makes all that much difference in these Blue Cherries.
Gives collectors something to talk about.
Last edited by ripster on 09 Oct 2011, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
- webwit
- Wild Duck
- Location: The Netherlands
- Main keyboard: Model F62
- Favorite switch: IBM beam spring
- DT Pro Member: 0000
- Contact:
Weren't you the guy who claimed the white and blue Alps were the same, before you went out to prove they are not the same?