Questions about Bolt Modding a Model M

[grasshopper]

Hi,

I'm considering bolt modding a Model M keyboard. I've read various guides on the internet and I think I've got the gist of it, but I'm still unclear what bolts and nuts are required.

I'm in the UK and will probably be ordering from http://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk

I understand that, for the nuts I will require: A2 Stainless M2 8mm Phillips Pan Head Machine Screws that can be found here: http://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/A2_ ... an_M2.html

However, I'm a bit confused about the bolts. I can either order A2 Stainless M2 Full Hex Nuts, or A2 Stainless M2 Half Nuts. Both types can be found here http://www.westfieldfasteners.co.uk/A2_Nut_M2.html

Can someone clarify whether it's best to purchase the full height or the half height nuts? Also, some guides mention washers and others don't. So should I purchase washers as well?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Crossfire]

I suggest the screws...less hassle, faster, the end result is functionaly more or less the same...
I bought the DIN 7982 2,2 x 6,5 cm galvanized screws.

[chzel]

I second the screws.
I have done both bolt/nut and screw, and the latter is easier, faster, and cleaner looking.
Just a word of caution: It's very easy to overtighten the sandwich, and then the feel suffers.
When I did the screw mod, I had to go back and undo all the screws almost a full turn.
I suggest you read Madhias's excellent guide.

[tigpha]

I third the screws.

I used No2 thread 2mm width stainless steel screws, 6mm length. I recommend also getting 10pcs carbide micro drill bits, 1.1-2.0mm (currently out of stock, maybe available elsewhere)

The carbide drills are more dependable than high speed steel for miniature work.

[Muirium]

So, would you screw mod fellas say a partial mod is possible / a good idea? My main SSK could use it, on the right hand side around the arrow keys in particular.

[tigpha]

Hi µ, What do you mean by "partial"? I don't think that you can avoid complete disassembly. I had to pop all the remaining plastic rivets (or whatever they are called) and remove the metal plate to be able to do a proper job of drilling.

[Crossfire]

So, would you screw mod fellas say a partial mod is possible / a good idea? My main SSK could use it, on the right hand side around the arrow keys in particular.

Full blown screw bukkake
Just do it!

[Muirium]

Argh! Keep your filthy seed from my SSK!!

Spoiler:

@Tigpha: Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if I can shortcut all the bother of pulling the whole board apart, just to tackle the right hand edge. That SSK is almost good enough for me to shrug off the whole idea of a mod, but if I get busy with the arrow keys, I do begin to think about it again…

[chzel]

Partial has the risk of getting a little shitty piece of debris stuck inside the sandwich, and then having to go for the full monty.
If that's OK with you, go for it!
But a screw mod is a good opportunity for some deep cleaning.

[fohat]

So, would you screw mod fellas say a partial mod is possible / a good idea?

I would say yes. If you are drilling small holes (1/16" = 1.5mm, the proper size for an M2 machine screw) and have a steady hand, then you should be able to core out the cylindrical post and create a tube for the screw to engage. If you do not break through the side wall of the tube that you are creating, there is no path for plastic particles to get into the membrane area.

I have never done less than a full nut & bolt mod, but there is no reason that this should not work.

And I have used this technique near the front where there is no room for nuts, anyway.

[Muirium]

Thanks. That's pretty much what I was thinking. If I'm neat, I could get away with it. I can be choosy, as the board's still holding together quite nicely overall. Probably only need to install a handful of bolts in choice locations.


@Chzel: Appeal to my OCD, why not? You know me too well…

But I'm also a lazy bugger. And wary of playing with fire, SSK-style. Should probably try some screws first on the M122 I already bolted.

[Crossfire]

Should probably try some screws first on the M122 I already bolted.

[grasshopper]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm a bit puzzled why so many people seem to prefer screws to bolts. I mean you still have to cut off the rivets, and drill holes into the frame, so it seems to me that overall, the amount of work you have to do is about the same. Am I missing something here?

[chzel]

Using countersunk screws leaves the top plate with just tiny little holes (the pilot holes are ~1.5mm) and it saves you the fiddling with the top of the bolts (keep the bolt steady while you balance the sandwich on it's edge and reach for the tiny nut which then ejects itself to oblivion only to realize that the lowermost row doesn't quite fit because there isn't enough space in the case....AGHHH!!!)
With screws you place the frame inverted on a suitable support construct the sandwich, and drive the screws in. If you start with the middle row you don't even have to compress the sandwich.

[fohat]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm a bit puzzled why so many people seem to prefer screws to bolts. I mean you still have to cut off the rivets, and drill holes into the frame, so it seems to me that overall, the amount of work you have to do is about the same. Am I missing something here?

This is the way I see it, and why I have always done the nut and bolt mod with washers, wherever possible. ("Bolts" are actually machine screws, of course.)

For a partial repair job, you would not take the sheets apart, and screws make complete sense. I wonder whether some people do the screw-only job to avoid peeling all the layers apart, but I like to separate them all so that I can thoroughly clean each and every component.

[andrewjoy]

We need an EU phosphorglow! i would send my SSK as its missing a few around the F keys and my 102 as it feels solid but i want it mechanically sound so i can use and abuse it as a wireless keyboard once i mod the replacement controller.

[idollar]

I would also go for screws.

I have repaired a (big) number of SSKs with screws and bolts, for myself and club members:

http://deskthority.net/post250693.html#p250693
http://deskthority.net/post234342.html#p234342

I will be happy to share my experience and answer questions. So do not hesitate to ask me.

BTW: a partial screw/bolt mod is possible without undoing the sandwich if you have the correct tools.

PM as needed (I am busy at present and it may take some time for me to answer).
If someone wants to send me a keyboard for repair, we could talk about it.

[Muirium]

Sounds like i$ is stepping up to the challenge! But to be a true Phosphorglow rival, he needs to start working on Bluetooth controllers…

Go on go on go on!

[andrewjoy]

Yes i need bluetooth on my model M 102 ! then i can use it when i would otherwise have to use some shitty logitech thing or that overpriced apple piece of crap.

Now if it only had a pointing device, or the controller supported mouse movement via the arrow keys

[Muirium]

Phosphor's controller supports TMK which supports mouse movement. You're all set, once you get your hands on the right hardware. It's a drop in replacement for the original IBM PCB.

[andrewjoy]

I have one. I just need the bluetooth bits and a big ass battery.

[Muirium]

Oh really? When did he send you that? I have the battery and BT bits, but not the BT enabled version of his controller. I test drove the original USB version for him.

We need to start building these things in Europe.

[andrewjoy]

OH is the controller not bluetooth enabled ? Bummer

[idollar]

Sounds like i$ is stepping up to the challenge! But to be a true Phosphorglow rival, he needs to start working on Bluetooth controllers…

Go on go on go on!

It is all about time ... unfortunately I (still) have to work to make my money.