Apple's new keyboard -

[ShivaYash]

Hello to all,

I am back in the northern hemisphere and in my local Apple Store.
I write this on a MacPro and the new Apple wireless keyboard. Whilst I won't be selling up and getting this keyboard just yet, I must say it feels absolutely wonderful. Its too thin for me, I love my HHKB amongst others, but really within a few moment, I am falling for this little KB. I would not recommend one would write their PhD thesis on it, but I am sure that many will. Has anyone done a proper review on here?
Just playing catch up with all topics and look forward to discussions in due course.

Yours,
SY

PS. The MacPro is pretty sweet too. So tiny.

[Findecanor]

I think we covered them enough when they were announced. Nothing special that would need a review.

Key feel is like the previous generation of MacBooks - too little travel. Not ridiculously shallow like on the go-wireless-or-get-expensive-cable-octopus-hell MacBook.
ISO layout still has a tiny Enter key. The rechargeable battery is built-in for earlier planned obsolescence. Harder to pick up because straight sides - although I have been unable to even try in stores where they have been glued down to the desks.

Does anything more need to be said? The keyboard is the first thing to replace if you would buy a new desktop Mac, for whatever reason. (if only the cheapest way to get a real 4K or 5K screen, I suppose)

[ShivaYash]

To me the key feel is far superior to the previous line of MacBook. Sure it's not a mechanical keyboard but I was really impressed by its build quality. The example I tried was not glued down and I don't see an issue with a built in battery unit. I'd welcome a full review and may even get one with my new iMac.

[jacobolus]

This keyboard is IMO much too low travel. It’s worse than the current Macbook Pro keyboards, or previous Apple desktop keyboard. Those are in turn worse than prior generations of Apple scissor-switch keyboards. (All scissor boards are crap compared to e.g. nice Alps keyboards from the 80s.)

I can’t imagine ever wanting to use this thing, unless I needed to carry it on foot across a mountain range, and being small and light was my only priority.

YMMV, and all that.

[Muirium]

Yeah, Apple's priorities in keyboard design are off on a tangent from ours. They care about thinness over all else, and it shows. Normal people find this awesome and a great advantage in itself. We don't.

Here's the original DT news thread:

product-news-f44/apple-magic-keyboard-a ... 11802.html

I've tried the board several times since then. (Window shopping iMacs.) Still the same impression. I'd keep it boxed for resale / a gift and swap in my HHKB in a heartbeat.

The Magic Trackpad is more interesting. I use the original and the new one seems a good successor. Way too pricey when bought alone, though, so it can wait. But what they did to the Magic Mouse was remove the wireless charging upgrade option that I've used on mine for years. Thumbs down!

By the way, try this: put a Magic Keyboard and Trackpad side by side in the Apple Store. Right flush next to each other. Shouldn't they be the same angle? Jony Ive where are you??

[jacobolus]

They aren’t the same angle? Anyone have a picture?

I think the angle is mostly determined by the battery.

[Muirium]

They aren't! It's enough to make me laugh out loud every time I visit. Such an unforced error. And the perfect symbol of how little Apple actually cares about desktop input. Peripherals indeed. They never even bothered to check that.

[andrewjoy]

But what they did to the Magic Mouse was remove the wireless charging upgrade option that I've used on mine for years. Thumbs down!

And they put the charge port on the bottom, apple are meant to have some of the best designers and they do that ?

The quest for thinness in all things is crazy at the moment , they design an amazing product and then forget that at some point you may want to use it.

[Muirium]

I'm surprised none of you nominated the new mouse for the Ping award in December. It could have saved MassDrop's hide! A true battle of DT Titans: hate for Apple or hate for MassDrop? Fight!

[andrewjoy]

I don't hate apple, hell we are one of the few places in the world to still use apple servers . I bitch at them because i like there stuff and want them to return to when they where good.

My RMPB for example is an amazing bit of kit , but why can i not change the ram or the SSD or the battery ? Because it has to be 0.00000001mm thinner thats why. Its just so sad, a few years ago adoption of OSX was increasing apple where making amazing laptops and everything was good, now its thinner , iPhone , thinner , iPad , thinner , planned obsolescence.

[jacobolus]

My RMPB for example is an amazing bit of kit , but why can i not change the ram or the SSD or the battery ?

Engineering it to use 2.5"-spinning-disk-size SSDs or user serviceable batteries would make it at least 30% thicker, probably more.

Even swappable RAM would take some big design change, and would probably be noticeably thicker. Look how small the logic board is:

[andrewjoy]

it would add a bit yes, but not as much as say the old style unibody , i have been inside them every which way, there is plenty of space under and around that PCB, they do edge mount ram , M.2 connectors for the SSD are tiny as can be seen on your photo! The lost battery from the ram on the edge can be moved under the PCB , you can get some very thin batteries now .

Also just an interesting side note, the number of screws holding the keyboard into a 09-10 MBP puts a model m bolt mod to shame.

[Muirium]

Yeah, don't hold your breath on that. There's no advantage to Apple in doing what you want.

Here's one of my just as unlikely fantasies. I'd love for them to team up with Topre to make Mac specific Realforces and sell them as fancy options in Apple Stores. You can imagine Apple and Topre working together on a new case design for a more traditional, mechanical, keyboard. I can picture some Topre love among Apple's users. They're already people primed to pay more for something fancy. Some will appreciate the keyfeel. Others can stick with Apple's scissors.

But not a chance of it ever happening. Just a pleasant dream.

[andrewjoy]

But , if you don't ask you don't get. Look at the whole error 53 we will brick your iphone because we cannot design touch id properly , stuff that went on, loads of people bitched about that and now they will service/ replace your phone if you get it.

Sure it may not happen , but even its there is a 0.001% chance if you ask , there is a 0.0% chance if you don't.

[jacobolus]

There’s also a .001% chance Jony Ive sends his design enforcers to cut your tongue out.

[Muirium]

That's not how Apple works. No one asked for the new keyboards. No one even asked for the iPhone as it first appeared. (People were imagining click wheel iPods with a phone mode instead!) Apple does no focus group / development by survey. That's the job of everyone else in the industry.

You heard that famous quote by Henry Ford?



Also:

[andrewjoy]

But people say they want thinner and thinner and apple provide , but people actually don't want that , its social desirability bias.

[Muirium]

It sells.

They seem to know what they're doing. Mac sales are still holding strong while the rest of the entire PC market spirals the shitter. You've got to remember that we are far from mainstream customers. This is who we are:

off-topic-f10/ever-wondered-how-we-seem ... %20machine

[andrewjoy]

Oh i agree we are not the average joe. But they need to provide more options, for example the new mac pro has its uses but the old style are still needed for people who cannot buy a new one every year and will upgrade components when they can.

There is no one perfect Mac ( insert model here) , there are only perfect Macs, just like there is no perfect pasta sauce only perfect pasta sauces , ask prego they know.

[Muirium]

The Mac Pro is surely on its way to getting shitcanned. No one is buying them. Apple hasn't updated the innards since first release, several years ago. And the 5K iMac has completely displaced it. Dead man walking.

Which is a pity. Because the old Mac Pro rocked. My primary desktop!

[jacobolus]

The Mac Pro is surely on its way to getting shitcanned. No one is buying them. Apple hasn't updated the innards [...]

That’s because Intel hasn’t updated their shit in forever, and external display buses are utterly incapable of keeping up with what Apple can build internal to an iMac. It’s been the same story with Macbook Pros.

New Mac Pro will come out as soon as they’re ready to put new Intel chips, a ton of USB Type C/Thunderbolt 3 ports, faster GPUs, new wifi/bluetooth, etc. into them, and Apple has “retina” class external displays to sell.

More people with scientific computing workloads would buy Mac Pros if they had Nvidia instead of AMD GPUs. More video/graphics pros would buy them if Apple were selling better external displays. CAD pros can’t use Macs because the software support isn’t there.

New Xeons finally shipping http://www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon- ... enchmarks/

[Muirium]

We'll see.

Apple's quite proud of the "new" Mac Pro's industrial design, so I can well imagine them giving it a much needed refresh. But! They're smart enough to know that Intel's quite appalling at keeping promises these days, and they should really expect a long ride down shit creek without a paddle with a future model, too.

I really doubt the little Mac Pro ever sold as well as the big old ones. I use mine for its internal upgradeability, and the fact it houses so many hard drives. I'd never have my 4K display if it weren't for replaceable GPUs. Apple has a long history of tantalising traditional desktop / home server guys like me. They could make the Mac of our dreams, but never do! Here's Siracusa on the subject a whole decade ago:

http://arstechnica.com/staff/2005/10/1676/

Desktops are dying out. As are personal severs, thanks to moving that work up to data centres, aka "the cloud". Apple's ties to the Mac, and the desktop in particular, aren't nearly as total as they were back when Siracusa wrote in 2005. I don't expect miracles from them now!

Indeed. Isn't Apple more interested in leaving Intel for its own CPU designs in the Mac, as well as every other product they make? That's something I'm looking forward to! Even if there'll never be a tidy home for all my junk…

[andrewjoy]

Thats the problem , people don't buy the new pro as its shit , the old style tower one was fine , very popular and worked well.

Put it back in a case and people will buy it.

[Findecanor]

they do edge mount ram , M.2 connectors for the SSD are tiny as can be seen on your photo!

Actually, that is not M.2. Apple uses their own proprietary SSD interface. But at least the drives are exchangeable...

The Mac Pro is surely on its way to getting shitcanned. No one is buying them.

Isn't it sad that the best Macs are Hackintoshes ...

Indeed. Isn't Apple more interested in leaving Intel for its own CPU designs in the Mac, as well as every other product they make? That's something I'm looking forward to!

Here, here! I want to see more CPU diversity, and an end to Intel hegemony. But I would be really surprised if Apple did not keep their CPU design for themselves.

I have been longing for alternatives with good performance, like in the old days when "Workstations" had chips that vastly outperformed Intel at the time.
There is a promising new CPU architecture called The Mill, but I am afraid that it might be too unorthodox.

[jacobolus]

There is a promising new CPU architecture called The Mill, but I am afraid that it might be too unorthodox.

The Mill is very interesting. I highly recommend watching through their all of their technical presentations.

However, it’s at least 5–6 years away from the first real products, probably more like 10. Additionally, it’s very likely to initially start in a more vendor-controlled markets, possibly small niches. I don’t see it hitting computer workstations any time soon; servers and mobile devices are both likelier early targets.