Broken Topre boards. Do they exist?

[shreebles]

Right, so it's not a board for you, but it's perfect for me. And? Your point? Considering we're discussing failure rates of these boards.

Yes, you came in the thread and wrote your own opinion and posted a different question yourself, which differed from what was asked in the thread originally. I am as free to post my own opinion as you are.

[Muirium]

You know what's offtopic in a bad way: handbag fights! Awkward, embarassing and downright tedious for everyone but the two busy slappers themselves.



Umbrage taken, Cybil!

[adhoc]

Adhoc:
I understand you can change the position. But fewer keys = fewer keys. There is no changing that. PS: There also nothing untrue about saying this.

Whether or not FN on the left is useful or not depends 100% on how you use your keyboard. I am left-handed, and use the left side of my keyboard a lot more. Since I also have arrows on WASD, and use the left Shift more than the right, FN on Capslock makes the most sense for me.

PPS: It does not bode well with me either when someone tells me the way I prefer to use my keyboard is useless:

but I don't see the point to be honest - I find Fn key on the left absolutely useless.

PPPS: I know this has gone slightly off topic but it's Offtopicthority after all... Right?
When people start singing the praises of the HHKB again (as in every keyboard thread, ever) I want to give a different view just to balance things out.

That's fine and all, but I've tried pretty much had every cherry switch ever, outside of some ghetto mods and whatnot. I've tried alps, kailh, buckling spring, all membrane switches, including the latest apple one, and then some. Even a 55G realforce. And HHKB is by far the best board out of all of them bar none. I've been into mechanical boards for about 8 years now and I've yet to find anything better - especially out of the box. Shitting on it because of the layout, when you can clearly tell if the layout will fit your needs prior to purchase, is nonsensical. Shit on it for useless usb hub and abs space bar for example? Fine. Hell, shit on it for not being programmable at this price? Fine (although I think this has more to do with the philosophy of layout Wada set out to achieve).

I've tried thumb Fn. Doesn't work nearly as well for me as HHKB style split right Shift. Pity, as I've plenty of boards with brain dead 2.75u coach-length right Shifts that could really use an Fn key there. But plumping it down on the thumb row slows me down much too much.

As for Topre consistency: I find it satisfactory enough to escape my notice. I haven't exactly tried an enormous number of Topre boards (I own an HHKB-Type S and a RF87U 55g and have tried only that many again for a full day's work or more) but seeing as two were brand new, one was moderately used by a single owner, and the Whoreforce was, uh, a touch more experienced: I'm happy with the selection that's passed my way up here. They're more consistent across the layout and between boards than my many IBMs, Model Fs included.

Yeah, I've only had a problem with one out of the dozen I had, but still...it was the most expensive one for me (I imported it from EK) and the most shit. Kinda left sour taste in my mouth.

[adhoc]

Right, so it's not a board for you, but it's perfect for me. And? Your point? Considering we're discussing failure rates of these boards.

Yes, you came in the thread and wrote your own opinion and posted a different question yourself, which differed from what was asked in the thread originally. I am as free to post my own opinion as you are.

Asking about quality control in a thread discussing the quality of keyboards is not as offtopic as you crying you hate the board because it's missing one key FOR YOU.

[shreebles]

This thread discussed the failure rate of Topre keyboards. You discussed quality control, performance over time, your own personal opinion, and most of all why it's the best keyboard ever and why everything else sucks.

I'm not even saying I hate the board, and the missing keys aren't even the only reason why I don't have one.
I just hate people who consider their opinion absolute when they feel "enlightened" and feel obliged to tell everybody about it so they may become enlightened as well...

Are we seriously debating which is more offtopic?

Your condescending tone is seriously disgusting by the way.

[adhoc]

I dedicated nearly half of my post directly related to topic. The other half was a question regarding quality control.

I actually tried to help you set up hhkb to your potential liking, to which your replies were bashing and now I'm the one with "disgusting" tone.

What a strange world you live in.

[002]

This thread could have been over real quick if we strictly discussed the failure rate of Topre keyboard. I think you'd have to ask someone like Brian from EK if you really wanted a good idea because he has sold probably the most of them in the western world and offers a warranty.

[shreebles]

What the fook? It's not really me who started with the bashing.

If you'd turn one of the meta keys (probably on the left) into Fn sure, but I don't see the point to be honest - I find Fn key on the left absolutely useless.

I hardly consider that helping.
"Yeah he could do that but it's pointless so I don't know why he wants to do it - probably stupid".

[adhoc]

Read what I wrote again. If you don't get it, read it again. If you still don't get it, read it again. Pay attention to small words like "I".

Protip: I was trying to be helpful.

Either way, I'm out. Don't feel like arguing on the interwebz with strangers.

[cookie]

I'd like to get back on Topic and discuss this "New Car" feeling 002 was talking about.
I must say that my 3 year old HHKB feels like on the first day, as much dislike the domes get considered the price tag. They do not change significantly, like cheap rubber domes (Those get mushy and terrible after a week of use)... They do change in a good way. My 11 year old Pro1 has the same characteristics as the Pro2, even better though. It is crisp but not heavy, it "thoks" nicer and deeper. The sound and feel is as Topre as it can get. I absolutely love it!

My question is though, will it become too heavy for my taste one day? If so, when will that happen?
I personally love the feeling of Topre switches and I have 8 more years to go with my Pro2 till I reach the "Sweet Spot" where my Pro1 is now.

Also I must say that Cherry MX switches, which seemingly won't change due to their spring based return mechanism, get better over time.
The best cherry MX switches I've ever typed on were, hands down, vintage blacks in a 30 years keyboard.
Zero scratchyness, quite heavy but butter smooth! My relatively new mx reds feel like cheap toys compared to them!

What I wan't to say, don't fear the wear! Threat your little fellas good and they will last and feel good for a long time


Edit: I'd say QC is related to failure rate somehow but I must say that I don't like where this thread is going right now

[kbdfr]

Apparently Cherry MX bashing has to be accepted while the slightest Topre criticism is lese-majesty.

Talking about off-topic:
keyboards-f2/broken-topre-boards-do-the ... ml#p303461




Edit: I don't mean cookie's last post, of course

[webwit]

I have a heavy used 7 year old and a new one, and the difference is noticeable. The old one is less consistent in required force and less crispy. I only noticed it by direct comparison though.

[shreebles]

Read what I wrote again. If you don't get it, read it again. If you still don't get it, read it again. Pay attention to small words like "I".

Protip: I was trying to be helpful.

Either way, I'm out. Don't feel like arguing on the interwebz with strangers.

Well, I don't consider these people here strangers. And for this reason, I don't talk to them like they are all idiots.
I understand you can read the words on a page.
What you have to understand, is that there can be a second, implied meaning (you may not grasp this).
And the way you formulate a sentence can carry this meaning, what you truly mean, and people with empathy can understand that meaning. Saying "I don't see the point to be honest" is like saying "I wouldn't do it and for this reason it's stupid."

[adhoc]

I have a heavy used 7 year old and a new one, and the difference is noticeable. The old one is less consistent in required force and less crispy. I only noticed it by direct comparison though.

Do you think something like lubing and cleaning out the sliders would refresh it?

I've had vintage blacks on test a few days ago...too smooth for me. Those really are butter smooth. It felt like float typing would be extremely easy on those, if I'd give it more time and get used to it. Same with vintage cherry blues, those were also very smooth with nearly no click (comparing to modern blues) to them.

I don't think boards like HHKB are old enough yet to really have them start failing. Like them or dislike them, these boards are made to last.

[webwit]

I don't know, I assume it's the rubber.

[adhoc]

Apparently Cherry MX bashing has to be accepted while the slightest Topre criticism is lese-majesty.

Talking about off-topic:
keyboards-f2/broken-topre-boards-do-the ... ml#p303461




Edit: I don't mean cookie's last post, of course

Of course not. You shall convert to church of topreology or be purged from these lands! Muahaha

[kbdfr]

Either way, I'm out. Don't feel like arguing on the interwebz with strangers.

Could you please stick to your promises?

[Muirium]

Indeed!

"He said she said" has no place in threads about vitally more important matters…

Apparently Cherry MX bashing has to be accepted while the slightest Topre criticism is lese-majesty.

Honest question, do you really think we Topre guys, and we IBM guys, are any more touchy about criticism of our chosen boards than MX guys? Or as you really just winding us up? (I choose to believe the latter, even when sometimes it really does appear to be the first. More fun that way!) As a fan of both Topre and IBM, I don't think there's any organised agenda one way or the other, just people speaking their minds. Every switch and company has its opinionated haters, who emphasise some things and downplay others to make their biased points. No surprise: we're a forum of several overlapping fandoms. An unhealthy sign would be if we did develop a monoculture where criticism only goes one way.

Things that peeve me about Topre: High price, maddeningly poor distribution, terribly limited selection of caps (albeit high quality ones), not much choice in layouts and form factors.

Things that peeve me about IBM buckling spring: High price for SSKs, terribly limited selection of caps (albeit dirt cheap PBT), very awkward choice in form factors, the best of which were discontinued long, long ago. As was the definitive version of the switch.

I switch around between these board families and several more besides, including some MX boards of all astonishing travesties! And I value a good criticism as much as a good defence. There's no perfect fairy unicorn keyboards out there. Not in the high fallutin' hype of whatever MassDrop's selling next, and not even in the HHKB that, yes, a solid minority of us consider to be so very almost sublime. That's what makes all this interesting, rather than a foregone conclusion. If the question "what is the best keyboard?" could be definitively answered, the same, for everyone, this community and the whole culture need not exist. But keyboards are more complex than that, which means everything!

[adhoc]

Either way, I'm out. Don't feel like arguing on the interwebz with strangers.

Could you please stick to your promises?

Did you seriously not understand I was joking?

Am I fucking stupid, can't speak English or what the hell is going on in this thread?

Holy shit, of course choosing your favorite switch is as subjective as subjective get.

[t!ng]

Jesus, this escalated quickly ... ^^

[jacobolus]

Apparently Cherry MX bashing has to be accepted while the slightest Topre criticism is lese-majesty.

Actually both Cherry MX and Topre are crap. Not enough magnets. Not enough snappy feel, clickety metal sounds or solenoid clickers. Not enough wooden cases. Not enough properly sculpted spherical keycaps.

[Muirium]

Assumes facts not in evidence. Troll!

[emdude]

Apparently Cherry MX bashing has to be accepted while the slightest Topre criticism is lese-majesty.

Actually both Cherry MX and Topre are crap.

[cookie]

That gif killed me