ohaimark's DT Quiz Time (started in [E]G/IF)

[ohaimark]

Snuci suggested that I create a separate thread for the guessing game which spontaneously started in [E]G/IF.

What are you making guesses about? A certain piece of retrocomputing gear that I'm close to purchasing -- should be invoiced and shipped next week.

So far I've given out the following information:

• It is an IBM.
• It uses Alps switches.
• There are only 4 units that I know of in all of the internet, down from the 5 I estimated earlier.
• There is a single Google Images result for its model number.
• You can find a research paper which relates to it.
• It is not designed for the Japanese market.
• It is not a prototype, although it came from a limited production run.
• NEW: it has been shown on DT once, but I'm fairly sure no one on the forum owns one.

I'll answer any questions about it that don't (based on subjective criteria that I won't write down) make it too easy for contestants to figure out its model number.

If you happen to guess its model number right I'll work out a reward of some sort. It'll likely be a surprise keyboard-related item or, if shipping is heinous to Europe/whatever other country you're inconsiderate enough to live in , a small gift card or PayPal transfer.

[emdude]

Hmm interesting..! On the Great/Interesting Finds page, I remember someone posting a listing for an IBM 7690 hanging computer, apparently designed for clinics/hospitals, that was taken down for some mysterious reason, on the very same day you posted that teaser of yours! I can also find only one image of it on Google Images, and its keyboard appears to be identical to that of the IBM 5140, which used SKCM Browns. Also, is this not the research paper you are referring to? Therefore I must conclude that it is the IBM 7690 Hanging Workstation!

EDIT: The singular photo!

[ohaimark]

Ding! That was quick. PM me to chat about the reward. Photos will follow.

[emdude]

Sweet! Will do!

[snuci]

Sweet! Will do!

Very good emdude! I didn't even get a chance but I'm fairly sure I wouldn't have gotten it.

[seebart]

So I guess you got this then ohaimark? The "only other picture":

Unbenannt.JPG (77.65 KiB) Viewed 6727 times

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-IBM-769 ... Swt7pXOHzu

I'm pretty sure there are more of these out there but it is rare for sure.

[webwit]

Great find!

[ohaimark]

According to the comment on this webpage...

http://www.yergens.net/blog1/clinical-w ... in-clients

The IBM 7690 never made it into field use. Its soldered-in 8086 chip doomed it. Parts for 5000 units were manufactured by IBM, but only a few hundred were assembled and used for development.

[E3E]

So how'd you pick this one up, Mark?

Plan on keeping it for your personal collection or what? Nice find though. Definitely seems rare. I'm glad I'm not heavily intrigued by it, otherwise I'd be totally jealous. Since it uses the same cap set as the 5140 (presumably; the only variation I can imagine is ABS vs PBT) and linear greens, it doesn't seem to be in stark contrast to anything I've seen yet.

However, in terms of computing itself and being what it is, it's pretty damn awesome and definitely worth the trouble if you're interested in all of that.

[emdude]

According to the comment on this webpage...

http://www.yergens.net/blog1/clinical-w ... in-clients

The IBM 7690 never made it into field use. Its soldered-in 8086 chip doomed it. Parts for 5000 units were manufactured by IBM, but only a few hundred were assembled and used for development.

Wow that's fascinating, it certainly explains the extra keyboards too.

[ohaimark]

I saw it on eBay and got in touch with the seller, who was silly enough to pull the listing and allow me to make an offer on it. It's taken me over a month to convince him to send me some detailed photos and an invoice, though. -facepalm-

It actually has Brown Alps -- not Green. I'm not sure if they're SKCM or SKCL. Time will tell!

There's also a chance that it could have an early touch screen.

Edit: I'm thinking of setting up an SSH client on it and using it to control home automation systems.

Edit 2: $5 reward sent to emdude.

[emdude]

Wow, that's much larger than I imagined it being, hope shipping costs will be reasonable for you. I think SKCL-series switches usually have those LED cutouts though? The switch in the photo does not seem to have that so I'm inclined to think they are SKCM. Would be really neat either way.

EDIT: And thanks ohaimark!

[ohaimark]

I expect shipping to be somewhere in the $60-75 range. I think there are a few items I purchased that I'll flip -- that may recoup some of my costs.

[Abstractions]

I saw it on eBay and got in touch with the seller, who was silly enough to pull the listing and allow me to make an offer on it. It's taken me over a month to convince him to send me some detailed photos and an invoice, though.

So you're the asshole who did that, I was going to bid!!!

Guess it's my fault for posting it on the great/interesting finds...

They were multiple boards...Did you take them all?

[ohaimark]

Shamelessly an asshole.

The seller had two other 7690s and a few additional spare keyboards, but they're being sold to other people -- locally, I assume. He's only selling me one 7690 and a couple of spares. There were also a few other items of interest that he lumped into the lot once I picked them out.

I saw it before you posted on [E]G/IF so that absolves me of any sins, imo.

[Abstractions]

Shamelessly an asshole.

The seller had two other 7690s and a few additional spare keyboards, but they're being sold to other people -- locally, I assume. He's only selling me one 7690 and a couple of spares. There were also a few other items of interest that he lumped into the lot once I picked them out.

I saw it before you posted on [E]G/IF so that absolves me of any sins, imo.

Yeah, looking at the post history I can see that I posted it after the seller ended, that was why I posted it as I was not going to otherwise. Doesn't matter anyways, enjoy it, it sure is unique.

[ohaimark]

Will good photographs and a happy home act as a slight balm to the sting of a lost auction?

I'm in touch with the gentleman whose website I linked earlier -- he has the manuals/software for the 7690 and said he'd be willing to scan them into modern digital format. That should let me bring the old girl back to full operational status.

[Abstractions]

Will good photographs and a happy home act as a slight balm to the sting of a lost auction?

Yep, it's fine. I except flawless photos and a great write-up.

[Tuntematon]

Asshole is right. I was watching that. How badly did you rip him off?

[ohaimark]

I offered him about half of estimated market value on most of the stuff he was selling, including the items that weren't listed in the auction. It appears that my offers were reasonable, though -- he would have fired some counter offers at me if they were out of line with the other units he sold to what I assume were local customers.

Did I rip him off in terms of eBay prices? Absolutely. In terms of local P2P Craigslist-ish prices? Not at all.

[emdude]

Out of curiosity, what were the other items you bought? If you feel like divulging it, of course.

[ohaimark]

A few Model Ms, a couple of new SDL cables, and a DOS diskette.

[need]

A few Model Ms, a couple of new SDL cables, and a DOS diskette.

Would you consider selling me one of the cables?
I'm in need of one at the moment

[seebart]

Did I rip him off in terms of eBay prices? Absolutely. In terms of local P2P Craigslist-ish prices? Not at all.

Not in any way a ripoff, to suggest otherwise is pathetic. You did the guy a favor.

[ohaimark]

Uhh... I can add an SDL cable to my order. You'd be OK with shipping costs from the US to the UK, right?

[E3E]

I offered him about half of estimated market value on most of the stuff he was selling, including the items that weren't listed in the auction. It appears that my offers were reasonable, though -- he would have fired some counter offers at me if they were out of line with the other units he sold to what I assume were local customers.

Did I rip him off in terms of eBay prices? Absolutely. In terms of local P2P Craigslist-ish prices? Not at all.

Yeah, reasonable to someone who has no idea what the enthusiast value is of something they're selling. It'd be a rip off if YOU sold them to someone for such low prices.

But hey, to be honest, we've all gotten deals here and there before for much lower prices than they'd be from enthusiasts, so it's hard to fault you. I think the frustration from people here is just out of a bit of envy.

Ignorance is bliss, perhaps. Perhaps the man should've done more research on what he was selling.

As a seller though, you certainly don't sell cheap from what I've seen.

[snuci]

I am sure a few items I have purchased were originally bought from garage sales or rescued from the scrap heap buy the seller I have dealt with yet I have paid good money for them. I myself am working on something similar right now (as I am sure others of us are too). It's a free market economy and that's the way it goes. As long as both sides are happy, it's all good.

[E3E]

Yeah, I can agree with that. As long as everyone is happy. I never try and mislead sellers into thinking their items are worth less than they are, but if they are happy in selling at whatever price they decide to sell for, and it's good for me, than it's good for everyone.

And that also includes high prices. As long as someone's willing to pay the price, then there's no problem, really.

[Tuntematon]

It's a fine line. I'm generally against auction circumvention because it typically involves a buyer trying to cheat their way to a better price at the expense of the seller and other potential bidders. It's bad for the ebay experience. My indignation in this particular case is minimal since I wasn't going to take action anyway. And yes, I gleefully snap up good deals when I find them. I don't tell the seller I should pay more . There is a limit to everyone's goodness. It's a jungle out there!

[ohaimark]

I think the negative reactions have stronger relations with ideology than envy, though a bit of the latter might be there.

I buy low from those who haven't the time or knowledge to market their items properly and sell high (usually, as sometimes I take a loss) using a method that lets the global demand determine what an item's value is -- auction. I could sell in a less optimal way to be kind, but I think that the premium service I offer justifies whatever markup accumulates. Apparently some buyers do as well -- my relations with customers have been stellar, afaik.

The opposing camp thinks that entry to the hobby should be cheap, thus they want to see artificially low buy-it-now prices. That's their prerogative, just as auctioning things is mine. I do lower prices artificially every now and then -- I'm not Ebeneezer Scrooge.

As to circumventing auctions, it is absolutely illegal and unethical. It violates the policy of eBay and ruins the site's environment.

But...

$ savings > my interest in following eBay's rules
$ savings > the personal moral satisfaction of allowing others to increase the price of an item I want because it's right
$ savings > my guilt for manipulating a seller who is willing to pull an item without further research as to why someone would want to prevent bidding from occurring

In conclusion:
I am an outlaw nerf-herder, but at least I'm self aware.

If someone had posted it here with a cat picture I probably would have left it alone, though that is a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation due to the resultant publicity and price hike.