An obituary of a keyboard that I plan to harvest from: Tektronix

[Menuhin]

Prologue:
In my room, there is this basically New-In-Box keyboard staring at me, and a sense of guilt just rushes into my gut as I picture how I would dismantle it for its PBT caps and its switches.

How it all began was my feverish enthusiasm into knowing more about keyboards and switches: first buckling spring, then Cherry MX, then Topre, and then the Alps - the vintage ones because opinions out there is that vintage Alps are far more superior than the modern simplified versions.

There is not much readily written I can find out about the origin of this Alps-switch based keyboard and I feel obliged to dig a bit into its history.

***

This keyboard is from 'Tektronix' and has a part number 119-2468-03.

Tektronix-2468.jpg (32.23 KiB) Viewed 9069 times

All information I could found on GH and DT was that it has some Alps switches and PBT caps, while there was no discussion about its history and its conversion for modern usage, e.g. through USB port.

What I noticed was that it is not listed so cheaply as it was in a few years ago, and 'Tektronix' sounds like a prominent brand. So I looked up 'Tektronix' and found that it is an engineering equipment company famous for its test and measurement devices such as oscilloscopes and logic analyzers. But these things need keyboards? I was immediately dumb-found.

After pulling up a 1988 product catalogue of Tektronix, I was finally able to see the first product photo of this keyboard with the terminal computer which costed $12,950 in 1988.

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Tektronix back then in the 80s and early 90s was still in the Computer-aided Design market and manufactured many graphic design terminal computers. And they even have their own UNIX distribution called Tektronix Utek (BSD 4.2 based Unix) that has software technological advancements on its own.

http://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Tektronix_4225

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http://terminals-wiki.org/wiki/index.php/Tektronix_4207

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I bet the engineers at that time would put quite some effort into perfecting the keyboards, there are already obvious design refinements depending it from the keyboards before the 1988 of the lower-cost terminal computer series. Well, it was getting closer to the standard 108-key full size keyboard layout.
Some of info about the Tektronix company:
http://www.vintagetek.org/tek-stories-2/
http://modularsynthesis.com/tek/
They held patents related to keyboard invention, such as this one about an NKRO implementation:
http://www.google.de/patents/US4106011

However, just after 12 years. What I found was this e-mail:
ftp://ftp.cs.utk.edu/pub/shuford/termin ... x_news.txt
===
Date: 15 Mar 2000 03:23:49 GMT
Organization: Globility Online Inc.
Newsgroups: comp.terminals
Message-ID: <8amvo5$43q$[email protected]>
From: Don Cleghorn <[email protected]>
Subject: Free: Tektronix terminals and misc.

Make an offer on any or all items, buyer arranges and pays for
shipping - all located near airport in Toronto, Ontario. Except as
noted, all equipment is believed to be in working order, but has not
been in use for several years and has been stored in an office.
Everything is as-is - no warranties offered.

Unless there is a huge demand this stuff will go for FREE - I'm just
trying to save it from the dumpster! Please respond to [email protected].
===
And the list included a few of these Tektronix keyboards.

Yes, I want to save it from the dumpster. But "I don't have space" - I couldn't believe myself as people in the past needed to setup a computer desk in order to use a computer for even just word-processing. For the most part, I don't have the knowledge to convert it from its proprietary connection to the modern one, e.g. PS/2 or USB. And I constantly question why I would want to spend so much effort on hobbies like this?

During a visit of a small special shop that stock many these 'high-end' hobbyist keyboards, I found out that the boss was quite pessimistic about the future of this niches hobby. His argument was that, there are much fewer people that treasure keyboards nowadays and most people got away with the touchscreen-based keyboards on their smartphone and tablet and for most workers, they use laptops and are used to chiclet scissor switches.

Well, he is right; we belongs to a very small niche group and we are different from the mainstream. So what? (Oops... then therefore the high price-tag)

Perhaps I should just dismantle it. Why so serious?

[mike52787]

This board should have Alps SKCL greens. Definitely a cool board. I would have no remorse about scrapping it though

[Chyros]

Don't do this, you must not do this! It looks awesome, and in that condition and even with the original box! It would be nothing short of a crime to disassemble this D: .

[Ir0n]

I wouldn't take it apart either :<
I'd trade it, or sell it to someone who'd want it as is before I took it apart.
Let it liiiiive! Lol

[Wodan]

Strike it down with all of your hatred

[alh84001]

What is that in place of arrow keys? Trackpad?

In any case, it's hard to say what to do. Are these the only known grey/pebble PBT alphas for Alps?

[seebart]

Everyone can picture what I would have done with it...this is where DT is basically becomes a new cooler GH where it's default to buy rare vintage keyboards in good condition to destroy them for custom 60%'s or whatever. Sad.At least you did some research on it.

[kbdfr]

At least this was a hoax:

Brandenburger Tor.jpg (342.85 KiB) Viewed 8952 times

http://www.der-postillon.com/2014/07/br ... en-um.html

How would you have appreciated it? "Old stuff anyway"?

[seebart]

Your post is incoherent kbdfr! The Brandenburger Tor is not Tektronix part number 119-2468-03?!? Apart from that the Brandenburger Tor will not be torn down anyway.

[Menuhin]

Disclaimer: the behavior of dismantling new keyboards for just their switches and caps in return to use these parts to build flashy new keyboards is distinctively countering the good, resourceful and parsimonious philology of German tradition. And yes, I'm an expat living in Germany, not a real German, at least still in the process of getting more integrated.
I actually have an American background - new and more and bigger = better

I agree that GH (and Reddit too?) are full of people who don't give a sheep about computer history and just shamelessly dismantle nice vintage boards just for their parts, in order to build flashy looking new keyboards full of toy key caps. (Not a bad thing to build or to have flashy new modern keyboards, in my opinion, I also like them sometimes.)
However, Deskthority (but not GH) is the first place where I found people have been trading and dismantling this same model of keyboards to harvest for their switches and caps:
vendors-f52/tektronix-green-alps-t8706. ... =tektronix
vendors-f52/wts-old-keyboards-t8474.htm ... =tektronix

Having the same vintage linear green Alps (SKCL), those keyboards from small and out of business company Zenith Data Systems, Inc. were quite popular among Alps enthusiasts - perhaps that they can just plug and play as the Zenith keyboards for those being PS/2. For a large company like Tektronix, probably having a much larger R&D team for their keyboards, their proprietary connector deters most of the non-technical folks in the keyboard community.

Perhaps being overwhelmed by the proprietary connector of Tektronix, and perhaps Tektronix being a smaller niche company more well-known for its engineering measurement devices, from the above threads (as far as I can tell), no one seems to care about the history of Tektronix and having those keyboards work in full condition again: these keyboards just went dismantled for the Alps switches I presume. And no one from those posts who bought the same Tektronix boards and similar Tektronix boards shared any investigation or wrote anything. Perhaps they are just now a bunch of switches and caps kept in boxes.

I did not study to become a curator, I believe the best way to keep a piece of design is to get it back to working condition and maintain it and let people experience it, otherwise, it should be a piece of article that belongs to some sort of museum or private collection (i.e. private museum in some sense).

What is the best would be that someone can step forward and volunteer to save this board if he (or she - but I believe such a she doesn't exist on DT) possesses the knowledge and skill and confidence to convert this board and bring this board 2+ decades ahead to serve the modern computer.

[Chyros]

Ah, I see, that kinda explains. I already found it weird that a German would be willing to destroy cool old stuff. Americans on the other hand don't seem to attach much value to old stuff in general :p . Probably because their history is so short. Definitely a New World versus Old World thing xD .

I'd happily take it off you, but I'm not a skilled programmer or computer person so I'd have difficulty converting it on my own. I agree that does seem like the best course of action though . I'm sure someone here would be willing and able to take over this board .

[alh84001]

Does anyone have any info on the protocol Tektronix boards used?

@Menuhin I'm in a similar situation as you - different board, but SKCL green switches, PBT keycaps and non-PC protocol. I first thought of butchering it since it looked really beat up, but when I cleaned it I realised it actually is quite well preserved. So, after I catch some free time (probably next year ), I'll try and get it to work.

[E3E]

Yeah, this is exactly why I refuse to dismantle my DocuTech keyboards just because they can't be used on modern systems. I hope to one day have them converted, and luckily, I have someone willing to do some troubleshooting into making a converter for them, but I'd never rip one apart for a custom, even though I have multiples.

I'm an american that cares about the history of their keyboards! There's very few boards I've actually torn apart without good reason to. The Apple IIc was probably the only example I can think of that I bought and dismantled for its switches.

And maybe the IBM 5140.

I think the biggest clarification I should make is that I would never buy something NIB to dismantle for its switches.

[Mattr567]

Plus the Docutech's are rare too. The Tektronic's are uncommon but don't seem super rare or anything. Dissembling anything NIB though always seems to carry a much larger burden. I would feel wayy worse to open an unopened box and immediately destroy what's inside. Good thing I wouldn't pay the price for a NIB item so I don't have to worry about that dilemma ever coming up.

Come on E3E, you and I are responsible for the destruction of the only two boards with SKCL Striped Amber in the world. Although the layout was super weird, hard to convert and neither were NIB. Mine was missing it's cable. Now those Amber's reside in a Zenith of course.

The 5140's are extra sad since your destroying an entire collectible computer

[alh84001]

With 5140, if you don't need those (awesome) keycaps, you can put in another Alps switch (SKCM white damped I'm looking at you), and drop the keyboard assembly back into computer.

[Hypersphere]

It is tempting to generalize about the mindset of individuals from, say, the USA vs. Germany and/or other European countries, but of course there is a wide distribution of philosophies in any two countries, such that there is overlap and many exceptions to general rules. When I lived in the UK and in Italy, and during my visits to Germany and other European countries, I met many people who were frustrated by such things as preservation laws that prevented tearing down old buildings to make way for new developments. Likewise, I know many Americans who would like to preserve the brief past that we have and who look longingly across the pond to Europe with its rich history and traditions, albeit at the expense of convenience.

It is good that we at DT are debating the ethics of keyboards -- questions such as whether it is better to preserve a board intact or salvage parts from it so that it might live again in a custom build. However, we here at DT do not have a monopoly on such ethical discussions -- I have seen these issues debated on GH as well.

Of course, preservation or salvage are not the only alternatives -- the keyboard could end up in the crusher at a recycling center or buried in a landfill.

Perhaps those of us who value preservation of originals should purchase rare old keyboards and restore them, thus saving them from other fates. But then how do we give others the opportunity to experience these bits of technological history? I suppose one way to share the vintage boards is to document them as thoroughly as possible in forum threads and in our DT wiki. Another way would be to donate them to a museum that features vintage computer technology.

What is the threshold of rarity that would help us determine when it is wrong to dismantle an old board? Are there legitimate offsets to justify salvaging a vintage board for its components?

[seebart]

I'd argue that none of this has anything at all to do with nationality, citizenship or origin. Just look at DT, we have various age groups from various countries who may or may not like vintage keyboards. I think the affinity to vintage keyboards may have slightly more to do with age, I know that I am often drawn to keyboards from my teenage and childhood times.

What is the threshold of rarity that would help us determine when it is wrong to dismantle an old board? Are there legitimate offsets to justify salvaging a vintage board for its components?

None. In fact one could argue the opposite, why not use these old parts and make something new if possible. I happen to disagree depending on the keyboard but that's beside the point.

[ohaimark]

Lecture series: the ethical keyboard collector.

I think age and profession are the primary motivators for our hobby.

[Hypersphere]

When I think of Tektronix, I think of their oscilloscopes, which are still thought of by many as the gold standards oi the industry despite the flooding of the market by decent budget scopes from Chinese companies such as Rigol.

Once upon a time, we had one of these analog CRT scopes in my lab:

Tectronix_analog.jpg (413.35 KiB) Viewed 8687 times

http://www.recycledgoods.com/tektronix- ... ug-in.html

Alas, it went to "Property Disposition" ages ago. I hope it might still be getting use on someone's workbench.

[seebart]

Ugh, what an impressive "beast".

[Hypersphere]

It's a thing of beauty! Moreover, on this machine you can pick up some of the earliest TV broadcasts from the 1930s.

[Hak Foo]

What is the threshold of rarity that would help us determine when it is wrong to dismantle an old board? Are there legitimate offsets to justify salvaging a vintage board for its components?

An interesting question. I tend to think that keyboards don't exist in a vaccuum-- a lot of the vintage keyboards should be preserved with the machines they go with. But then we can ask "what part of the keyboard do we need for the machine?"

If anything, the controller is probably the most valuable part of many of these boards. The firmware is unlikely to be archived or replacable elsewhere, and it's what makes talking to the host system viable. You could, in many cases, salvage switches, keycaps, and even PCBs, and just wire up the controller to a rubber-dome or commodity-mechanical-switch matrix if the goal is to preserve the ability to use the vintage machine.

Some keyboards have nonstandard features which are necessary to exploit the system. Those weird touchpad arrow keys on Tektronix boards, the wheels on HP 9836 series machines. There, you obviously have to preserve more of the board to allow others to experience the machine as-is. You could swap Matias switches into that Tektronix board once you're done harvesting the ALPS, and it would still be a fine choice for the original terminal.

Now, some keyboards, the aesthetic is part of the factor. As high-performance as it was, people bought SGI kit because it looked cool too.

Then there are some where the physical attributes of the keyboard were a big part of the experience. The distinctive feel of the beamspring was part of the experience people expected out of old IBM kit. Some machines made extensive use of a specific keyboard layout that is unlikely to be replicated. If you want to preserve those experiences, you probably have to keep the board largely intact.

Once we've decided what we have to preserve, we can look at available supplies and interchangeable parts to decide if we're likely to run out of them if we cut up available units.

And, of course, chuck it all out the window if the concept isn't preserving use with a host machine. The 4704 boards, for example, nobody is preserving them with the intent of using them with a 4704 terminal. I suspect many of those Soviet bloc magnetic-switch boards long ago had their associated terminals and computers scrapped.

[Menuhin]

... Another way would be to donate them to a museum that features vintage computer technology...

One reason that I started this thread indeed is some bad conscience toward scrapping a board just for its switches.

By the way, Berlin has 150+ (or 200+) museums, and even one for currywurst. Why not one for keyboard that I've heard of?
Can't DT organize a museum to salvage these vintage board somewhere in Germany? Like a symbolically rented room from related industry, such as GMK or Cherry MX. So that these non-private or donated collections can be tried out and understood by more people or even on load to people for the non-super rare pieces.

[fohat]

I have a strong "collector" gene and understand the elegance of (some) old things, especially mechanical devices.

On the other hand, a computer keyboard is something that I use for hours on most days, and it has to work for me.

The real-world test needs to be "What is this thing worth on the open market?"

Just because it is "cool" does not make it sacred.

If it has great rare switches that are worth $1 each for ~100 of them, then its "collector value" needs to exceed its "parts value" of $100. If you can sell it for more than that, don't junk it.

As a person who scrounges and recycles things, quite often I buy something in order to dismantle it and re-purpose part(s) of it. Recently, for example, I bought 2 framed pictures cheap at a 2nd-hand store because it was considerably cheaper and better than buying new frames. Not the best analogy, but similar.