Model MF - GB CLOSED

Pick our controller... Voting ends on Friday

The mini-xWhatsit that WCass shrunk down. It uses the same mini-controller design as Ellipse's F62/77, but with a connector meant to slip onto our PCB (inverted running parallel to the backplate)
18
30%
The CommonSense that DMA has recently put together. This is young yet, but has the most long term promise (not a question). It will have a very similar connector (possibly perpendicular vs. parallel slip-on mount)
42
70%
 
Total votes: 60

User avatar
lot_lizard

21 Nov 2016, 21:38

So just to recap (these are based on Unicomp's current color scheme for horizontal (horizontal) /black (vertical))...

ANSI
  • Full size - 5 white / 2 black
  • SSK - 4 white
ISO
  • Full size - 3 white / 3 black
  • SSK - 2 white / 1 black
BAE
  • Hope you have your own stabilizers
In either form factor, take away 1 white If using the split backspace. If using a split spacebar, add 2 whites.

hypkx
Chasing the Dream

21 Nov 2016, 22:01

If someone wants to use BAE I have in some time BS BAE set for sale, with stabs, btw. I have also some stabs in stock:
for-sale-f55/bolt-and-usb-modded-model- ... ml#p337811

User avatar
Ray

21 Nov 2016, 22:57

I want to combine this with some keys from Unicomp, can someone help me out?
Are Unicomp pebble/pearl the same as old IBMs?

User avatar
fohat
Elder Messenger

21 Nov 2016, 23:31

Ray wrote: I want to combine this with some keys from Unicomp, can someone help me out?
Are Unicomp pebble/pearl the same as old IBMs?
That debate has raged forever.

Pearl is a pretty good match but Unicomp's pebble is distinctly browner and warmer.

Also some legends (eg function keys) are distinctly different, so get the entire F1-F12 set or it won't match.

User avatar
Ray

21 Nov 2016, 23:35

I am looking for blank mods mostly. Browner and warmer pebble? I will try all pearl then, thanks for the quick answer.

User avatar
Darkshado

21 Nov 2016, 23:36

I'd say pearl is very close, pebble not as much. Depends on how picky you are:
Spoiler:
IBM 1989, Unicomp 2016
Image
Spoiler:
F10 - IBM 1989, Unicomp 2016
Image
You could get away with some mix and matching, but not all combinations.
I initially thought of getting only the different keys to convert an French AZERTY board to Canadian French QWERTY but ended up buying the entire set since it was one or two dollars more and tons easier to order off their site. Did not regret it.

User avatar
Darkshado

21 Nov 2016, 23:38

You could also get colored mods and solve the color matching problem that way. IIRC they have RGB sets and you could order any color available as well.

User avatar
DMA

22 Nov 2016, 02:59

Another unclear area - will F122 long keys (with wire stabilizers) be compatible with this plate, or I'll need the whole set from Unicomp? Shifts, bksp, enter, kp_0, kp_+, kp_enter?

/me tries to inventory the heap of keys he has.

User avatar
lot_lizard

22 Nov 2016, 03:03

DMA wrote: Another unclear area - will F122 long keys (with wire stabilizers) be compatible with this plate, or I'll need the whole set from Unicomp? Shifts, bksp, enter, kp_0, kp_+, kp_enter?
All stabilizers on an F122 are there. This needs to be tested though. It's the reason the final prototype we do with all the finished goods will be a full size. Dropped off the beamspring plates for powder coating btw (not sure if I mentioned that already). Also, the colors lined up really well. We are going with SLIGHTLY brighter red, but it is still very close


EDIT: since the red is the one that wasn't a "perfect" match, I'm having them do the beamspring plates in it

User avatar
lot_lizard

22 Nov 2016, 05:43

Updated the 3rd OP with the participants so far and some high level numbers (I have much more detailed stats, but it's not complete yet... soon).
Spoiler:
No one has ordered a Christmas edition yet (red top plate, green back plate, and white side spacers) :shock:, but if you did, I would probably deny the request anyway :)

User avatar
ohaimark
Kingpin

22 Nov 2016, 06:04

Good work.

User avatar
BinaryHalibut

22 Nov 2016, 07:11

lot_lizard wrote:
Spoiler:
No one has ordered a Christmas edition yet (red top plate, green back plate, and white side spacers) :shock:, but if you did, I would probably deny the request anyway :)
The Italy edition :)

giokkk

22 Nov 2016, 14:43

Ordered! :)

User avatar
Nuum

22 Nov 2016, 15:06

lot_lizard wrote: Assuming the lead pans out (it should), I will have 14 "Code" keys so far that enable the split spacebar. If you are interested... PM. The cost will be mine (5 a piece after shipping)
BTW, the three barrels for the split spacebar can fit two of those Code keycaps and an additional 1.5u one, right? How are they stabilized?

User avatar
lot_lizard

22 Nov 2016, 15:24

Nuum wrote: BTW, the three barrels for the split spacebar can fit two of those Code keycaps and an additional 1.5u one, right? How are they stabilized?
Let me see if I can find some time this morning to put together a quick diagram of how the keys line up so this makes more sense, but the only layout that will actually fit and be backwards compatible with the standard M spacebar is a Right Shift + Code + 1.5u. While both the Right Shift and Code are 2.75u, the key stems are arranged differently. For the stabilizers, you will need two white (horizontal) stabilizers. I do not have spots for a wire stabilizer on the Right Shift for the spacebar. The Code key only works with the insert stabilizer anyway. In the meantime, this picture might help a little (note these are just set in there if they look tilted). Again, let me put together something that shows the key caps in relation to the underlying barrels and stabilizers. It would be good for the Q&A section up front that I need to start populating

Image

EDIT: I added the following image to hopefully make a little more sense of the key size in relation to barrel orientation
splitSpaceBar.png
splitSpaceBar.png (9.45 KiB) Viewed 4863 times
Last edited by lot_lizard on 23 Nov 2016, 10:58, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
derzemel

22 Nov 2016, 15:37

I have a bunch of dumb questions:

1. Could you add indicator leds to the SSK assembly to look something like the ones made by Phosphorglow:
Spoiler:
Image
2. Didn't Unicomp made the SSK together with (or after?) Lexmark? Don't they still have the molds for SSK cases?
If yes, what stops them from using them again to create limited runs for Group Buys?
I would love a Black SSK case with a Dark Gray Square IBM Badge

User avatar
Techno Trousers
100,000,000 actuations

22 Nov 2016, 15:48

Unicomp says they never got the SSK molds. With as much interest as they've gotten in those over the years, I'll bet that's their biggest regret.

User avatar
E TwentyNine

22 Nov 2016, 15:55

Techno Trousers wrote: Unicomp says they never got the SSK molds. With as much interest as they've gotten in those over the years, I'll bet that's their biggest regret.
They made new other cases, they could have made a SSK case or their own interpretation of one and sold a tenkeyless.

User avatar
lot_lizard

22 Nov 2016, 15:58

Not dumb at all...
derzemel wrote: 1. Could you add indicator leds to the SSK assembly to look something like the ones made by Phosphorglow
We had some discussions about this one early on, and actually considered making notches in the top plate for EVERY barrel so that LED support could be added if every desired to any key from underneath, then scaled it back to just the keys you mentioned, and finally decided that if anyone wanted to do it, they would create an overlay like Phosphorglow did that sits on top of the plate. So for now, there are no plans to add it, but there is no reason it couldn't be done in the future by someone (the xWhatsit has spots on the header to control lights for the SSK just like it would the full-size)
derzemel wrote: 2. Didn't Unicomp made the SSK together with (or after?) Lexmark? Don't they still have the molds for SSK cases?
If yes, what stops them from using them again to create limited runs for Group Buys?
I would love a Black SSK case with a Dark Gray Square IBM Badge
Unicomp never ended up with the SSK molds. I confirmed that yesterday when I was on the phone with them. I don't know if you saw the workshop thread (EASY to miss) but Phosphorglow made nice progress producing an SSK mold that would be resin based (similar to the originals). Emailing back and forth with him, he has made additional progress, but I have no idea when he would find the time to do this on scale (he's busy these days). I probably shouldn't share, but I doubt he is actively following this at all, so I will share the photos (forgive me Phosphorglow if you preferred I didn't, the timing seemed appropriate). Moral, it wouldn't be part of this group buy, but we will focus on making SSK cases at some point (maybe even metal/wood)

gldjgenlbpjghpij.jpg
gldjgenlbpjghpij.jpg (225.13 KiB) Viewed 5116 times
ecaijfmglammidip.jpg
ecaijfmglammidip.jpg (247.01 KiB) Viewed 5116 times
Last edited by lot_lizard on 22 Nov 2016, 16:10, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
derzemel

22 Nov 2016, 16:08

lot_lizard wrote:Not dumb at all...
derzemel wrote: 1. Could you add indicator leds to the SSK assembly to look something like the ones made by Phosphorglow
We had some discussions about this one early on, and actually considered making notches in the top plate for EVERY barrel so that LED support could be added if every desired to any key, then scaled it back to just the keys you mentioned, and finally decided that if anyone wanted to do it, they would create an overlay like Phosphorglow did that sits on top of the plate. So for now, there are no plans to add it, but there is no reason it couldn't be done in the future by someone (the xWhatsit has spots on the header to control lights for the SSK just like it would the full-size)
derzemel wrote: 2. Didn't Unicomp made the SSK together with (or after?) Lexmark? Don't they still have the molds for SSK cases?
If yes, what stops them from using them again to create limited runs for Group Buys?
I would love a Black SSK case with a Dark Gray Square IBM Badge
Unicomp never ended up with the SSK molds. I confirmed that yesterday when I was on the phone with them. I don't know if you saw the workshop thread (EASY to miss) but Phosphorglow made nice progress producing an SSK mold that would be resin based (similar to the originals). Emailing back and forth with him, he has made additional progress, but I have no idea when he would find the time to do this on scale (he's busy these days). I probably shouldn't share, but I doubt he is actively following this at all, so I will share the photos (forgive me Phosphorglow if you preferred I didn't, the timing seemed appropriate). Moral, it wouldn't be part of this group buy, but we will focus on making SSK cases at some point (maybe even metal/wood)
gldjgenlbpjghpij.jpg
ecaijfmglammidip.jpg
Oh boy... Now everybody will jump on his back to do them

User avatar
lot_lizard

22 Nov 2016, 16:17

derzemel wrote: Oh boy... Now everybody will jump on his back to do them
Agreed... he released some pics back in the Workshop thread a few weeks ago, so the cat was out of the bag then. He knows we want them based on feedback there. I am confident that we will some day, even if someone ends up continuing his work. I plan on taking a month or so off after all of this, but my next project will be small metal cases for the 5251 beamspring. At that time, I will play with metal SSKs as well. So 1Q/2Q of '17, expect some progress in this area. There are a lot of qualities that make resin appealing over metal though (its not all about having something heavy), so we wish him good fortunate in his experiments.

User avatar
Khers

22 Nov 2016, 16:47

lot_lizard wrote: [...] [M]y next project will be small metal cases for the 5251 beamspring. [...]
You've got my attention! :mrgreen:

User avatar
E TwentyNine

22 Nov 2016, 17:33

lot_lizard wrote: There are a lot of qualities that make resin appealing over metal though (its not all about having something heavy), so we wish him good fortunate in his experiments.
If I can't beat someone to death with it, it's not in the IBM tradition.

Do want to see what Phosphor finalizes...

User avatar
POTV

22 Nov 2016, 19:45

@lot_lizard...

1) If you ship one box with two full assembled units and one assembled unit but without switches - will the last unit not need to be disassembled to put the switches in?

2) If one box contains two full assembled kits and one assembled but without switches - as mentioned above - is there an increased risk of damage during shipping? I have had several Model F´s shipped from the US with cracked cases in spite of decent packaging...

3) How difficult is it to add the switches?

User avatar
lot_lizard

22 Nov 2016, 20:06

This is the riddle of the day :)... I'll try my best
POTV wrote: 1) If you ship one box with two full assembled units and one assembled unit but without switches - will the last unit not need to be disassembled to put the switches in?
I haven't quite decided yet whether these are shrink wrapped, or assembled with a partial number of screws. Either way would be about the same about of work for you in the end to pull apart. If you picked up a PCB and controllers with the plates, they would be wrapped inside the curved plates to protect them.
POTV wrote: 2) If one box contains two full assembled kits and one assembled but without switches - as mentioned above - is there an increased risk of damage during shipping? I have had several Model F´s shipped from the US with cracked cases in spite of decent packaging...
PERSONAL OPINION, not at all here. The packaging we will be using is very forgiving, and you aren't dealing with any "plastic parts" being exposed aside from the barrels themselves. Normally the issue would be the case colliding with the box shell. We would have the opposite problem where we don't want the plates/parts to rub. We will be careful/cognizant when packaging.
POTV wrote: 3) How difficult is it to add the switches?
There was a request for a guide on this one, and for sure we will have by the time things make it to you, but I'm not sure if I can get to it before hand (trying). The difficulty of putting the foam/barrels/springs in place would be VERY similar to any other F. The assembly process for the plates is "different". I like it better having gone through 15-20 times at this point during experiments than anything other M or F, but it takes a little bit of time to torsion each of the screws to really dial it in if you are ULTRA picky. There are MANY less screws than a M bolt-mod, and requires less "skill" than putting F plates together, but it is somewhere in between the two as far as effort (if you know how to assemble an F well). The real reason is the extra thickness of our foam that our assembly process enables (this is more like tighten a head gasket on an engine). We are SO much tighter than any F I have put together when assembled. Everything is highly crisp and consistent at this point... BUT... we are NOT quieter (crisp <> quiet). I like it better, but don't plan on some silenced F.


Hope this helps

User avatar
POTV

22 Nov 2016, 20:10

It helps a lot - as usual :-)

User avatar
Hypersphere

22 Nov 2016, 20:21

@lot_lizard: I've submitted 3 more spreadsheets for a total of 3 SSK kits and 2 full-size kits.

Now I must go sign the papers for the second mortgage on my house .... ;)

User avatar
lot_lizard

22 Nov 2016, 20:42

Hypersphere wrote: @lot_lizard: I've submitted 3 more spreadsheets for a total of 3 SSK kits and 2 full-size kits.

Now I must go sign the papers for the second mortgage on my house .... ;)
haha... you'll like them. promise (if for some reason not... PM me once received and I'll make right). Its the upside to seeing all of the parts produced locally as they come off the line and testing immediately (I will be present when EVERYTHING here other than the PCB and controllers are made). Normally that is a HIGH premium compared to overseas, for us it was basically a wash. We have enough power were we can reject and entire order if out of spec, etc. They'll do good by us. Checking the order forms out now, and will PM if something seems off

User avatar
E TwentyNine

22 Nov 2016, 21:56

Hmmm....maybe the tribute sticker should be everyone ordering in this first round... :mrgreen:

User avatar
lot_lizard

22 Nov 2016, 22:16

E TwentyNine wrote: Hmmm....maybe the tribute sticker should be everyone ordering in this first round... :mrgreen:
hahaha... you act like there is a second round. Don't burst my bubble (playing). There might be a special surprise (or two).

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