Space Invaders NKRO?

[lancre]

I use a Topre Realforce at work, but no one is on my floor today as it's that funny period between Christmas and New Year, so I thought I'd take my Dell AT102 into work for a change without having colleagues to annoy.

I am an analyst and use Emacs on a daily basis for R and Python scripting. What I didn't consider is that keyboards with 2KRO (which unfortunately includes my Space Invaders board, but not my Omnikey Ultra T) don't really work well with Emacs.

For those that don't know, Emacs heavily uses modifier keys. E.g. Ctrl+p moves to the previous line, Ctrl+n moves to the next line, Alt+w copies the text marked by Ctrl+space bar+direction, Alt+> moves to the end of the document, Ctrl+c+b evaluates (runs) the current script, and so on.

The idea is that you don't have to let go of the modifier key, so you can chain commands together. You can also use Elisp to script your own commands.

Things go wrong quickly. If I go Ctrl+n+p, as though I wanted to visit the next line and then think "oh wait, I need to go back to the previous line", I end up writing a p instead of moving the cursor. Imagine that scenario but basically copied across every conceivable case where we might want to do more than 1 thing at once. It's a nightmare.

I don't suppose that any boards were released with Space Invader switches that had NKRO?

[Laser]

I thought Space Invaders keyboards *are* usually NKRO. But, I have to ask, isn't your Dell keyboard rather equipped with Alps switches?

[czarek]

It could be the controller. When I type really quickly on my Amiga (linear white space invaders) it looses some characters in between. When I type slowly or press keys one after another, it works flawlessly. I checked the diodes and they're all good.

[lancre]

I thought Space Invaders keyboards *are* usually NKRO. But, I have to ask, isn't your Dell keyboard rather equipped with Alps switches?

Oh... hmm. To be honest I haven't taken the case off the RT8255C+ so I don't know if there are diodes on the PCB. The only other thing it could be is the active converter to translate from PS2 to USB. To be honest I thought Space Invaders boards were all 2KRO but I'm ready to be corrected on that.

My Dell keyboard has black Alps yes. How do you mean "equipped"?

[lancre]

It could be the controller. When I type really quickly on my Amiga (linear white space invaders) it looses some characters in between. When I type slowly or press keys one after another, it works flawlessly. I checked the diodes and they're all good.

Ohhhhh I think it's because I remapped the Ctrl to Caps Lock. I bet that the controller doesn't recognise that you can hold down the caps lock key, so it isn't being interpreted as such in the registry. That's actually pretty annoying for those of us who wants to use our caps lock key to avoid the "emacs pinky".

[lancre]

It could be the controller. When I type really quickly on my Amiga (linear white space invaders) it looses some characters in between. When I type slowly or press keys one after another, it works flawlessly. I checked the diodes and they're all good.

Ohhhhh I think it's because I remapped the Ctrl to Caps Lock. I bet that the controller doesn't recognise that you can hold down the caps lock key, so it isn't being interpreted as such in the registry. That's actually pretty annoying for those of us who wants to use our caps lock key to avoid the "emacs pinky".

(edit) although it seemed fine on the Topre board. I wonder if the controller does something different with the caps lock key on a Topre board compared to another board?

[Chyros]

I thought Space Invaders keyboards *are* usually NKRO. But, I have to ask, isn't your Dell keyboard rather equipped with Alps switches?

No, they're not usually, even really old ones. There are a few though:

The one in that video I sold to Seebart, but I found another one a few months after that. I can't recall off the top of my head if that one had NKRO as well.

[lancre]

I thought Space Invaders keyboards *are* usually NKRO. But, I have to ask, isn't your Dell keyboard rather equipped with Alps switches?

No, they're not usually, even really old ones. There are a few though:

The one in that video I sold to Seebart, but I found another one a few months after that. I can't recall off the top of my head if that one had NKRO as well.

Was that a RT101 as well? Do you think the same model maybe ditched the NKRO after some time?

Also while we're on the subject, I saw this on Sandy's web pages and I'd like to know if anyone has tried it out, it looks amazing, apparently this one had linear switches, it's called an N-97:

front_1.jpg (37.69 KiB) Viewed 4280 times

Another cool board is the keychatter YouTube page where they have a typing demonstration on a NMB RT8756C+. I wonder if that one has NKRO? It's a pretty good looking board, with quite a small footprint for a space invaders board.

[Chyros]

That was an RT102 as well, yes, the 72511 type IIRC (with NMB boards it's generally more useful to discuss FCC IDs or generation numbers than model names).

[czarek]

Can't say anything about PC Space Invaders keyboards, but Amiga one surely doesn't have NKRO.

[Laser]

at.

My Dell keyboard has black Alps yes. How do you mean "equipped"?

In your original post, you mentioned taking a Dell AT keyboard to work, but then you mentioned Space Invaders and the keyboard not being NKRO - hence my confusion - which keyboard are you talking about?

[lancre]

at.

My Dell keyboard has black Alps yes. How do you mean "equipped"?

In your original post, you mentioned taking a Dell AT keyboard to work, but then you mentioned Space Invaders and the keyboard not being NKRO - hence my confusion - which keyboard are you talking about?

Yeah sorry I read my post again and that was confusing! I took the Dell to work, which is 2KRO, and I had problems, and it made me think of the problems I had some time ago with the Space Invaders board, so I jumped onto the forum to ask about the Space Invaders board, though it wasn't the one I happened to be using today I really like the Space Invader switches. Only tried the black ones so far, but they might be my favourite switch. Wish it was more popular and that more keyboards came with it. If it had the reach of Alps, there might had been the option to make modern builds with them.

[Engicoder]

Most of the space invaders boards made in the late 80's are NKRO. So a few later 2nd Gen, all 3rd Gen and the early 4th Gen boards all are fully dioded and support NKRO. The later 4th gen boards like the common RT-8255C+ does not have diodes.

Here is comparison of a 4th Gen boards with (right) and without (left) diodes:

Everex-112920-001-Diodes-Annot.png (2.55 MiB) Viewed 4196 times

[Laser]

Heh, I thought it was something like that (just wasn't sure)

Wish it was more popular and that more keyboards came with it. If it had the reach of Alps, there might had been the option to make modern builds with them.

I think the closest thing to building a modern Space Invaders custom keyboard would be to start from the files published for this custom Alps build: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76738 and modify the "switch" component (or what's it called) to account for the different dimensions (and number of pins) in order to get to a Space Invaders PCB.

[Chyros]

Heh, I thought it was something like that (just wasn't sure)

Note that those aren't particularly common models though. NKRO Space Invaders keyboards aren't quite as ubiquitous as them might seem.

[lancre]

I think I'll just work around it. I really love the switches. I'm typing on the restored Northgate with the clean white Alps that I bought off the forum, but even though this is a beautifully restored board (by me I hasten to add), I still have a really soft spot for the space invader sound and feel. It feels good. Anyway happy new year to all (at a slightly inebriated 4:30 in the morning)...

At some point I'll be asking for the Japanese K-97 Kana keyboard with linear space invaders... it's a pretty rare thing by my estimation, so if anyone has it, please keep hold of it for me

[Chyros]

I think I'll just work around it. I really love the switches. I'm typing on the restored Northgate with the clean white Alps that I bought off the forum, but even though this is a beautifully restored board (by me I hasten to add), I still have a really soft spot for the space invader sound and feel. It feels good. Anyway happy new year to all (at a slightly inebriated 4:30 in the morning)...

At some point I'll be asking for the Japanese K-97 Kana keyboard with linear space invaders... it's a pretty rare thing by my estimation, so if anyone has it, please keep hold of it for me

If it's just for trying out linears; you can linearise clicky Space Invaders by taking out the latching arm .

[lancre]

I think I'll just work around it. I really love the switches. I'm typing on the restored Northgate with the clean white Alps that I bought off the forum, but even though this is a beautifully restored board (by me I hasten to add), I still have a really soft spot for the space invader sound and feel. It feels good. Anyway happy new year to all (at a slightly inebriated 4:30 in the morning)...

At some point I'll be asking for the Japanese K-97 Kana keyboard with linear space invaders... it's a pretty rare thing by my estimation, so if anyone has it, please keep hold of it for me

If it's just for trying out linears; you can linearise clicky Space Invaders by taking out the latching arm .

It's a layout thing. The arrow keys below the numpad and the ctrl key where the caps lock key is, now that's close to a perfect layout for me because you get the benefit of a slightly reduced footprint without losing the numpad or the nav. And being an emacs user, it's handy to have the ctrl in that position. Plus all those kanji / hiragana / katakana symbols make the board look really cool. Unfortunately it sounds a complete pain to source one, I mean, google N-97 kana keyboard and you get Sandy's page and... that's it.

It's even an ANSI layout, which is preferable. Less distance to hit the enter key. Actually looking at it again, it's not an ANSI layout. It has the single-height enter key and the two unit backspace, but the special characters block is extended one unit to the right to fit in 4 extra keys. How bizarre!