Futaba clicky switch thoughts?

[Lynx_Carpathica]

I enjoy my board because it is very "clicky" the sound it makes is awesome. It honestly isn't very pleasant to type on. The keys feel quite harsh. Not exactly sure how to describe it. Fun to use once every few months but not a daily driver imo. Not sure if I have a bad example, or the switches are just not that great.

Reminds me of amber Omron B3G-S series. Pretty mediocre switch with sensational feeback.

But unlike B3G-S, it's not that rare
I'd be happy to get one board with Amber switches though, only problem it's rare and expensive especially here in Europe.

[Chyros]

I enjoy my board because it is very "clicky" the sound it makes is awesome. It honestly isn't very pleasant to type on. The keys feel quite harsh. Not exactly sure how to describe it. Fun to use once every few months but not a daily driver imo. Not sure if I have a bad example, or the switches are just not that great.

Reminds me of amber Omron B3G-S series. Pretty mediocre switch with sensational feeback.

Yeah, definitely. I'd probably use my Omron board more if it didn't keep losing more and more switches xD .

[seebart]

I enjoy my board because it is very "clicky" the sound it makes is awesome. It honestly isn't very pleasant to type on. The keys feel quite harsh. Not exactly sure how to describe it. Fun to use once every few months but not a daily driver imo. Not sure if I have a bad example, or the switches are just not that great.

Reminds me of amber Omron B3G-S series. Pretty mediocre switch with sensational feeback.

Yeah, definitely. I'd probably use my Omron board more if it didn't keep losing more and more switches xD .

I managed to pick up a KB-6151-ER that's much more satisfying to me in terms of the Omron B3G-S experience, in the massive KB-6151 case those Omrons are even louder! But the overall Omron B3G-S quality is way more random than Alps SKCM.

KB-6151-ER_1.JPG (956.35 KiB) Viewed 6862 times

[arkanoid]

Chyros, how do you compare the feeling of Futaba to that of Alps leaf spring? I personally have not tried Alps leaf spring, but some people say it is lighter weight and has more pleasant clicking sound.

[Chyros]

Chyros, how do you compare the feeling of Futaba to that of Alps leaf spring? I personally have not tried Alps leaf spring, but some people say it is lighter weight and has more pleasant clicking sound.

I think you mean plate spring? Those are excellent. My Futabas haven't been "restored" along these lines, I'm keeping them original for the moment, but I can say Alps plate springs dominate quite a few switches IMO. They're one of my higher tiers, on par with Montereys, and above MBS and SKCM white but below CBS and SKCM blue.

[arkanoid]

Oh yes, I meant Alps plate spring. It's interesting that it is between the MBS/SKCM white and CBS/SKCM blue. Too bad that not many keybords are available with the Alps plate spring. Thank you!

[Chyros]

Oh yes, I meant Alps plate spring. It's interesting that it is between the MBS/SKCM white and CBS/SKCM blue. Too bad that not many keybords are available with the Alps plate spring. Thank you!

Of course, that's just my opinion. APS tend to get pretty good reviews, though.

[badziew]

I have recently come into possession of a KB-5192 with Futaba clicky switches: https://imgur.com/gallery/isYkO
The keyboard is new, and while the switches are definitely clicky, the upstroke click is much louder than the downstroke click, and the tactility is barely felt at all. Typing feel is nice due to very smooth switch operation and soft bottoming out, they feel like a bit lighter Clears in that regard. I haven't removed the spacebar yet, but it feels like it has a additional spring underneath and is a lot softer than other keys. It's also not rattly at all and makes a very deep sound.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I didn't know that there was a KB-5193 — it seems that it did go into production, but whatever it was, it was rare, and I don't know if any photos of one survive.

[rich1051414]

I have recently come into possession of a KB-5192 with Futaba clicky switches: https://imgur.com/gallery/isYkO
The keyboard is new, and while the switches are definitely clicky, the upstroke click is much louder than the downstroke click, and the tactility is barely felt at all. Typing feel is nice due to very smooth switch operation and soft bottoming out, they feel like a bit lighter Clears in that regard. I haven't removed the spacebar yet, but it feels like it has a additional spring underneath and is a lot softer than other keys. It's also not rattly at all and makes a very deep sound.

I have the same keyboard with the same switch. Kind of a polarizing switch. I call it 'linear clicky', but it does have tactility, just not much in the traditional sense. The tactility is more of a 'shock' than a physical bump that effects the weight of the switch. Reminds me a bit of box kailhs in this regard. However, the sound and tactility is mostly on the upstroke, which can really throw you off and definitely makes the switch stand out as 'something else' when you type on it. Very unique.

With that said, the switch is remarkable smooth. However, it seems spring corrosion or wear can make that smooth action into something feeling somewhat spongy, so I think the state of the switch changes things a lot.

Personally, they are one of my favorite switches, though I can understand if others are off put by them.

[arkanoid]

I think it is natural to have a louder click sound upon upstroke. When you downstroke, your finger absorbs the shock of clicking bump of the leaf spring, so the switch gives somewhat dull sound. For upstroke, your finger is already off of the keycap, so the clicking sound is not disturbed.

The different weight of the space bar is probably due to the use of gray switch.

If you like the Futaba switches, try Alps plate spring, and IBM beamspring. You may like them more, depending on your preference.

By the way, Sejin still provides a repair service for their keyboards (looks like they still have a stock of the switches). However, it is kind of worthless for many of us considering the international shipping cost.

[Polecat]

I have a few Futaba keyboards in the collection. Televideo TPC-II, Ancer DFK-121, and a Leading Edge AK-1012. All clicky. I don't personally care for them for extended typing, but I use the Ancer on an old 386 that runs an EPROM burner and some DOS programs I need from time to time, and it's perfect for that since it's very tactile. I haven't had any switch problems at all with the Ancer, but I bought it new and it's had a relatively easy life.

I recently found an interesting bit of history on the Ancer/Antec keyboards while digging through my file cabinet. Specifically a plastic-bound wholesale catalog for the Antec line of products. Unfortunately undated, but I'd guess mid-'90s. Antec was/is a wholesale supplier of computer products for the do-it-yourselfers located in Fremont, California, and Ancer was apparently one of their product lines. Mostly PC cases and power supplies, at least in this catalog and set of brochures. But they list two references to keyboards.

The "Product Grid" lists only one - Ancer p/n 761345-41203, model KF-191B, description K/B BLK 101 key mechanical click.

The glossy brochure however lists two different versions - "101 key mechanical-click", and "101 key mechanical-soft click".

*Speculation Alert!* I'm guessing that "mechanical-click" is the white Alps SKCM version (of which I have five examples) and the "mechanical-soft click" is the Futaba version, of which I have only one. Daniel B. previously connected these to Strongman, and the case and label style and model numbers seem to match up with Datacomp. I'm guessing that Antec bought these from Datacomp (or ???) and wholesaled them to computer stores under the Ancer name.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I guess it depends what "soft" means (soft feel, or soft level of sound) — the Futaba switches are certainly a softer feel, but they're also loud!

[Chyros]

I think it is natural to have a louder click sound upon upstroke. When you downstroke, your finger absorbs the shock of clicking bump of the leaf spring, so the switch gives somewhat dull sound. For upstroke, your finger is already off of the keycap, so the clicking sound is not disturbed.

That's as may be, but the Futabas are louder on the upstroke even if you do keep your finger on them :p .

[rich1051414]

I guess it depends what "soft" means (soft feel, or soft level of sound) — the Futaba switches are certainly a softer feel, but they're also loud!

"mechanical-soft click" Sounds like a light switch which also clicks to me, which does sound a LOT like futaba switches to me, so I can understand someone connecting those dots, but yeah, all speculation.

As far as saying they have 'a lot of tactility', that depends on what you call tactility. If your idea of tactility is a shift in the weight of the switch where you must overcome a bump, then the tactility is very slight on the futaba switch. If it is the shock induced into the switch, then the tactility is high. It can almost sting on particularly clicky switches.

[badziew]

If you like the Futaba switches, try Alps plate spring, and IBM beamspring. You may like them more, depending on your preference.

I might take a look around for a board with Alps plate spring. Beamspring are beyond my budget at this point, and their height might be an issue too.
Back to Futabas, at this point they seem to be nearly perfect for me. The smoothness, soft bottoming out feel and very pleasant sound ought to keep me satisfied for at least a couple months. My credit card surely needs a bit of a breather...

[Daniel Beardsmore]

I read "mechanical-soft click" as "(mechanical)-(soft click)", which would not describe Futabas to me. The only real "soft click" switches for me are Fujitsu Peerless; Alps SKFF only emits a very faint click, but the mounting plate might amplify that.

[badziew]

I have not had the pleasure of typing on Fujitsu Peerless keyboard, but if softness was related to sound, these could not have been Futabas. The sound they make is deep, but yeah... they do make quite a ruckus...

[Polecat]

I read "mechanical-soft click" as "(mechanical)-(soft click)", which would not describe Futabas to me. The only real "soft click" switches for me are Fujitsu Peerless; Alps SKFF only emits a very faint click, but the mounting plate might amplify that.

I've previously described the Futabas as "clunky". That isn't meant to be derogatory, but you definitely know whether or not you've pressed a key, and that's what I meant by "tactile". I'm not a touch typist, so if I don't get a positive feedback from the keyboard I need to look up at the screen whenever I'm not sure I've completed a keypress. And my head gets tired of all that up and down. I know, it's a personal problem, but a good tactile keyboard does wonders for my physical and (ahem) mental wellbeing.

Here's a scan of the Antec/Ancer brochure showing the black Datacomp-style keyboard. Again these came with Futaba white inverted cross or Alps white SKCM switches. Later versions had a slightly different layout, with a 2X backspace, small right shift/backslash, and windows keys in the usual place.

[Polecat]

I guess it depends what "soft" means (soft feel, or soft level of sound) — the Futaba switches are certainly a softer feel, but they're also loud!

I'm basing that on the product matrix listing, which lists only the "mechanical click" version under the KF-191B model number. The white Alps SKCM versions I have are labelled KF-191 or DFK-191 while the Futaba version is labelled DFK-121.

[rich1051414]

Btw, anyone have any idea why simply desoldering and resoldering the switch restores much of the clickiness? Strange phenomenon.

[purdobol]

After almost a week o testing all I can say is. This is by far my favorite switch for gaming. Lower actuation point combined with smooth and springy feel results in very pleasant and relaxed experience. When it comes to typing it's ok. There're better switches out there, more suitable for long typing sessions. Which in turn are terrible for gaming heh. Probably the reason why it's such a polarizing switch.

Btw, anyone have any idea why simply desoldering and resoldering the switch restores much of the clickiness? Strange phenomenon.

Thermal expansion would be my guess.

[balotz]

Btw, anyone have any idea why simply desoldering and resoldering the switch restores much of the clickiness? Strange phenomenon.

The loss of click is sometimes due to warping of the rubber mat at the base of the switch. Perhaps the heat from the soldering iron changed the shape of the mat.

I have a lot of these switches / boards and I believe are intended to be very clicky. Over time this clickyness is lost, even in NOS boards. I've described a procedure to restore / enhance the clickyness earlier in the thread which doesn't involve desoldering or opening the switches - they simply need to be overextended by pressing the slider down slightly below the point where it's flush with the barrel, and holding it a few seconds.

I've sent some of these fixed switches to Chyros...

[seebart]

I just got a Datacomp DFK-777F with plate mounted clicky Futabas from IKSLM today I must say Im quite impressed with these switches! Another "underdog".

[Polecat]

I read "mechanical-soft click" as "(mechanical)-(soft click)", which would not describe Futabas to me. The only real "soft click" switches for me are Fujitsu Peerless; Alps SKFF only emits a very faint click, but the mounting plate might amplify that.

It appears there was another switch option on the DFK-191, which might better explain the mechanical-click vs. mechanical-soft click thing:

http://ggg2005.pixnet.net/blog/post/215 ... 技-mx620-無線

...in which case I've dragged this way off-topic. I haven't attempted to translate this. The Futaba switches might have been an earlier version rather than a concurrent option.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That one has Windows keys, so it would depend on whether black (or salmon/orange/ivory) Alps were used prior to that. It's certainly possible.

[Polecat]

That one has Windows keys, so it would depend on whether black (or salmon/orange/ivory) Alps were used prior to that. It's certainly possible.

I have three KF-191/DFK-191 boards with Windows keys (and two without, plus the DFK-121 with Futabas). Two of the three with Windows keys, dated 1996-97 by the serial numbers, have white Alps-type switches; one has cream/ivory. I haven't yet opened up the switches to ID them, but that's on my list.

What I'm wondering is if the black Alps version on that site was concurrent with white and/or cream, and if that's the explanation for the "mechanical-click" and "mechanical-soft click" in the catalog rather than Alps vs. Futaba?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

That Ancer brochure is so old that multiscan monitors were still a new idea! I don't think the Windows keys models existed quite that far back.

[Polecat]

That Ancer brochure is so old that multiscan monitors were still a new idea! I don't think the Windows keys models existed quite that far back.

Very good point. Windows keys were first used with Win95, which would put them around 1995-96 at the earliest.

[badziew]

After almost a week o testing all I can say is. This is by far my favorite switch for gaming. Lower actuation point combined with smooth and springy feel results in very pleasant and relaxed experience. When it comes to typing it's ok. There're better switches out there, more suitable for long typing sessions. Which in turn are terrible for gaming heh. Probably the reason why it's such a polarizing switch.

Haven't tried gaming with these switches yet, but they are more than decent for typing in my opinion, especially when typing when wearing headphones and being isolated from the sound. For some weird reason, I have no doubt whether I've pressed a key only basing on the key feedback... I'll have to check if the feeling is similar with buckling springs, but for now, I'll keep using them until I get bored with these. Smoothness and overall softness of these switches' operation is really pleasing.