F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

Ellipse

17 Nov 2017, 01:45

mini update + dark gray keys now available to order!

Per the factory the key molds are expected to finish the first week of January. This is the same subcontractor that did a good job with the barrels and flippers (all to spec).

The spring samples should arrive next week. These are made with a new factory that had the exact original standard material that IBM used for their springs (I had them analyzed at a lab). To speed up assembly, the factory expects to build a bulk spring attacher (their prototype could attach one spring and flipper at a time).

Dark gray printed and unprinted sets are now up for order! https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... iece-keys/

Total cost is $5 less than the $10 expected premium. These will be a limited early bird color to minimize extra setup charges for the final production run next year. You can pick free/other shipping if you want to add keys to your current order.

To keep the project on track and avoid extra assembly variations, these are extra sets only - they can't be your only set or installed set if ordering a keyboard.

Vizir

17 Nov 2017, 03:41

Ellipse wrote:mini update + dark gray keys now available to order!

Per the factory the key molds are expected to finish the first week of January. This is the same subcontractor that did a good job with the barrels and flippers (all to spec).

The spring samples should arrive next week. These are made with a new factory that had the exact original standard material that IBM used for their springs (I had them analyzed at a lab). To speed up assembly, the factory expects to build a bulk spring attacher (their prototype could attach one spring and flipper at a time).

Dark gray printed and unprinted sets are now up for order! https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... iece-keys/

Total cost is $5 less than the $10 expected premium. These will be a limited early bird color to minimize extra setup charges for the final production run next year. You can pick free/other shipping if you want to add keys to your current order.

To keep the project on track and avoid extra assembly variations, these are extra sets only - they can't be your only set or installed set if ordering a keyboard.
Do you have the color code or a photo of this color or, even better, photos of keys in this color?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

nivloM droL

17 Nov 2017, 07:19

Ellipse wrote: mini update + dark gray keys now available to order!

Per the factory the key molds are expected to finish the first week of January. This is the same subcontractor that did a good job with the barrels and flippers (all to spec).

The spring samples should arrive next week. These are made with a new factory that had the exact original standard material that IBM used for their springs (I had them analyzed at a lab). To speed up assembly, the factory expects to build a bulk spring attacher (their prototype could attach one spring and flipper at a time).

Dark gray printed and unprinted sets are now up for order! https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... iece-keys/

Total cost is $5 less than the $10 expected premium. These will be a limited early bird color to minimize extra setup charges for the final production run next year. You can pick free/other shipping if you want to add keys to your current order.

To keep the project on track and avoid extra assembly variations, these are extra sets only - they can't be your only set or installed set if ordering a keyboard.
Did the springs have to be re-done?

Shihatsu

17 Nov 2017, 13:28

Just a short question regarding the shop and adding items later on - I intend to order the black on black caps and a "classic" case as addition to my original order (F77 in compact case). Should I just order it and it is automatically added to my old order? When will the cc be charged? I may add that I will need ISO-DE - will that be available in black on black?

Ellipse

17 Nov 2017, 22:24

No Vizir - if you have any recommendations or MX examples that you think most people would want, please post them.

The springs did not have to be re-done. I ordered samples and am waiting for them to be shipped, probably early next week. The samples are finished and the factory is currently inspecting them.

Yes Shihatsu I will combine orders for shipping - you can order and it will be combined for shipping. The card is charged when you place an order. Everything but the ISO key is available in dark gray (that key is from Unicomp; I don't have a new mold for it as mentioned before).

Xovaan

18 Nov 2017, 17:51

Hi Ellipse,

Regarding the dark gray key cap option: If I'm reading correctly, the HHKB-style modifier keys will be included, yeah?

Excited to see this coming along!

Ellipse

18 Nov 2017, 18:11

No, the HHKB set and Front printed F1 etc. sets are not part of any of the main 103 key sets.

milk_stain

19 Nov 2017, 00:59

Sorry if this has been answered before, but will there be an option for homing bumps on the F and J keys?

Ellipse

19 Nov 2017, 01:23

Yep that is the default for everyone.

Xovaan

19 Nov 2017, 19:39

Ellipse wrote: No, the HHKB set and Front printed F1 etc. sets are not part of any of the main 103 key sets.
Ah, gotcha.

What's the best way to order HHKB-style dark gray printed caps for the F77 if I opted for the HHKB layout with my original order? I'd love to have dark gray printed caps in the HHKB layout.

Ellipse

19 Nov 2017, 23:51

Feel free to order the HHKB set and add a note that you'd like dark gray printed keys.

User avatar
strah

20 Nov 2017, 17:55

Ellipse wrote: Feel free to order the HHKB set and add a note that you'd like dark gray printed keys.
I can't find the HHKB set as a listing in the online shop, can you provide a direct link to the HHKB set?

User avatar
Khers

20 Nov 2017, 19:32

Since I don't get an answer in the other thread, I'm repeating my question here:
Khers wrote: Is it possible to change my black blanks for a set of BoB?

User avatar
strah

21 Nov 2017, 07:59

Khers wrote: Is it possible to change my black blanks for a set of BoB?
Judging from the blog post about the dark gray caps, they are only available as extra sets - you can't replace your black unprinted set with the dark gray caps:
To keep the project on track and avoid extra assembly variations, these are extra sets only – they can’t be your only set or installed set if ordering a keyboard.

Xovaan

21 Nov 2017, 08:10

Ellipse wrote: Feel free to order the HHKB set and add a note that you'd like dark gray printed keys.
I ordered them before asking here (whoops). Any way you could update the order to include that note for order #4780? Apologies!

User avatar
Khers

21 Nov 2017, 09:08

strah wrote:
Khers wrote: Is it possible to change my black blanks for a set of BoB?
Judging from the blog post about the dark gray caps, they are only available as extra sets - you can't replace your black unprinted set with the dark gray caps:
To keep the project on track and avoid extra assembly variations, these are extra sets only – they can’t be your only set or installed set if ordering a keyboard.
I have already ordered an extra set, one which I would like to keep, but I'd prefer to ditch the black blanks I originally ordered in favour of a set of BoB and, to be quite frank, I don't see why the hell I should not be able to do that. Especially considering that there is an option to bring yor own caps. Arbitrariness is strong in this one.

User avatar
strah

21 Nov 2017, 15:24

Khers wrote: I have already ordered an extra set, one which I would like to keep, but I'd prefer to ditch the black blanks I originally ordered in favour of a set of BoB and, to be quite frank, I don't see why the hell I should not be able to do that. Especially considering that there is an option to bring yor own caps. Arbitrariness is strong in this one.
Oh alright seems I misunderstood what you meant, sorry. I think in your case that should be possible since, as you pointed out, bring your own caps is an option, so Ellipse could simply change your order to that.

Ellipse

22 Nov 2017, 00:31

Yes no problem Khers to upgrade a spare set. Please order 5 units of the store item $1 increments and you can pick free/other shipping. Please specify a note that you are upgrading black blanks to dark gray printed.

strah here is the link to order any of the add-on key sets (HHKB, front printed, Industrial SSK): https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... ys-f1-etc/

xovaan I don't see the HHKB set ordered; I just see the regular 103 key dark gray set in your order. Feel free to order the HHKB set with the above link and I will combine shipping (you can pick free/other shipping).

Ellipse

22 Nov 2017, 00:37

Here are the first factory photos of the unfinished springs made with IBM's original material spec (they have not yet had the final protective finish applied to match the originals).

The springs should be finished up and shipped this week by DHL Express. I will examine them and hopefully sign off on them soon.
springs (2).jpg
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springs (1).jpg
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springs (3).jpg
springs (3).jpg (57.49 KiB) Viewed 3333 times

milk_stain

22 Nov 2017, 08:21

Huzzah! Springtime for Ellipse and Deskthority!

Ellipse

24 Nov 2017, 05:32

A small update:

Inner assembly plates: The 1000+ pounds of steel for the inner assembly plates finally arrived this week at the factory! Next week starts the CNC laser cutting (next step for the plates).

The production inner foam is still being cut.

Still waiting on the spring samples to ship either tomorrow or early next week.

Shihatsu

30 Nov 2017, 02:41

CANNOT. WAIT. KILLING ME.

User avatar
Elrick

30 Nov 2017, 04:10

Shihatsu wrote: CANNOT. WAIT. KILLING ME.
I shall pop my load when it finally finishes and starts shipping ;) .

Perhaps the MOST anxiously awaited keyboard that was ever made and suspect, nothing in the future will ever match it.

User avatar
depletedvespene

30 Nov 2017, 12:42

Elrick wrote: Perhaps the MOST anxiously awaited keyboard that was ever made and suspect, nothing in the future will ever match it.
(until we convince Ellipse to do 'em in SSK form factor as well... :mrgreen: )

pcaro

30 Nov 2017, 15:21

depletedvespene wrote:
Elrick wrote: Perhaps the MOST anxiously awaited keyboard that was ever made and suspect, nothing in the future will ever match it.
(until we convince Ellipse to do 'em in SSK form factor as well... :mrgreen: )
+1

User avatar
Korzenowski

01 Dec 2017, 10:02

Never mind SSKs, it's about time we got together and put pressure on Ellipse to pull his finger out and get control of this bloody project.

It's 15 months since I ordered (and paid for!) my keyboards. In that time, the delivery date has slipped at least 18 months and there is still no clear indication of when they are going to be ready. I'm sure Ellipse will protest otherwise, but since some parts have still not been manufactured, it is not possible to say when delivery will start.

Last week we were waiting on the first sample springs from the Chinese factory. So far, no sign they have arrived. Past experience says they will not be up to standard, or they'll be inconsistent, or they won't sound right. And we're relying on them to produce something of the order of 100,000 springs with zero defects? I have no confidence the factory will be able to deliver.

Inner plates that don't match the technical drawings and we're still waiting for the replacements. Keys originally to be supplied by Unicomp. No way would Ellipse contemplate making his own. Which has since become Ellipse having keys custom made, with a custom font he plans to print himself - on 100,000+ keys. Then the extra key sets. And extra key colours. Repair kits. And on, and on, and on. Incessant scope creep and all the time we're no closer to getting our keyboards.

Meanwhile, Ellipse continues to extend the "early bird" date and push the delivery date out indefinitely.

I have no doubt that the finished product will be excellent. I have doubts that it will be finished any time before 2019. I'm tired of the constant excuses, and the failure to learn how the Chinese do business. You have an American supplier capable of making acceptable springs and you can trust them to get them right. Stop messing around and get this project finished.

Close the "early bird". Fix the specification, and start pushing the suppliers. Make do with the 5mm cardboard boxes we have rather than wait for the factory to stuff up again. And drop this nonsense of checking every single keyboard; it's no longer feasible with so many of them on order.

And if you can't do that, start offering refunds. Patience is one thing, but 18+ months for a keyboard is not acceptable. I know it's a big and difficult project, but the project manager's job is to take control and sort out the problems.

Paul

Shihatsu

01 Dec 2017, 11:35

If you don't have patience. ask for a refund and get the heck outta here. Again such a demanding tone... "project manager"... you know that this is not work for ellipse? dude... gtfooh

User avatar
nsmechkb

01 Dec 2017, 14:57

Korzenowski wrote: [...]
Please don't "get the heck outta here".

__red__

01 Dec 2017, 18:00

I'm sure I've asked this before, but if I order flippers and barrels as parts only, can they ship immediately?

User avatar
Nuum

01 Dec 2017, 18:41

Shihatsu wrote: If you don't have patience. ask for a refund and get the heck outta here. Again such a demanding tone... "project manager"... you know that this is not work for ellipse? dude... gtfooh
Isn't that the case with almost every group buy? Why are you defending this one so hard from other peoples worries and complaints?
I'm not (yet) in this GB, but I would start to worry when I will finally get my board after such a long time as well. Refunds are probably no an option for many people, because they really want an F62/F77.
You're right in saying that this is a huge project where there will be delays on delays, especially with a guy like Ellipse, who cares for every detail, and you can't necessarily expect him to do this as a full time job. But I highly dislike your tone with which you are attacking other members expressing their worries.

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