First DIY keyboard project - need some advice

[Rezrex]

Hi!

I'm new to the community and while I was lurking around here on and off for many months, I've just decided to register since I'm starting my first DIY keyboard project.

What I'd like to build is a fully symmetric keyboard with the alphanumeric keys, the Fx keys, and the navigational cluster. The most important to me aside from full symmetry is the modifiers. I'd like them to be mostly thumb keys. The other important thing is cost. I'd like to remain under $200 if possible.

The prototyping would be done by using cardboard as the plate and wiring the switches (I didn't decide yet if the final version will use a PCB or wiring). I currently have two Tesoro Durandal G1N keyboards with Cherry MX Brown switches (one for home use and one for my workplace). Since I currently don't use the one I've purchased for my work, I will cannibalize it for its switches (at least until I'm done prototyping, the final version will be most likely done with Gateron Blues). The controller will be a Teensy++ 2.0.

What I can't decide on is what type of keyboard do I want to make.

The first option is a 60% style keyboard only with the Fx keys added above and the arrow keys and the control cluster added to the two sides (left side for the Ins/Del/Home/End/PgUp/PgDn; right side for the arrows and maybe the Scroll Lock/Print Screen/Pause keys cause they can come in handy sometimes). The thumb modifiers would be done by using 2u or 2.25u spacebar and adding 1.25u or 1.5u keys to the freed up space. This would be symmetrical, however, the ergonomy would not be much better than a normal keyboard's and I'm already suffering from some light RSI. I was thinking about the matrix arrangement for the keys but I think that without splitting the keyboard it may be even worse than the normal stagger.

The other option is a sort of bastard child of the keyboard.io, the Ergodox, and the Atreus keyboards. However, I don't know if I could really design a usable ergonomic split keyboard. I have some ideas for it but nothing concrete.

My problem is further exacerbated by being Hungarian. I normally switch keyboard layouts (Hungarian <-> US) depending on what I'm doing (programming is a pain on Hungarian layout, you will see why if you look at this picture: http://www.smartkeyboardsolutions.com/i ... 4-zoom.gif).

Fortunately, I can touch type on both layouts but when I use an ANSI keyboard (I prefer this physical layout), typing Hungarian becomes a pain. Hungarian QWERTZ keyboards are ISO types and the key next to the left shift is used for the "í" character which is quite common in our language. On an ANSI keyboard, I can type this character only by using AltGr+j (for í) or AltGr+i (for Í). So I would need +1 key for this but without shortening the left Shift or placing this +1 key in an awkward position.

I'm also thinking about adapting the Dvorak/Colemak/Maltron layout for dual language use. I really like the Maltron for placing the E for the thumb and Dvorak for placing all vowels on the home row for the left hand; however, in Hungarian, we use accented versions of all latin vowels (áéíóöőúüű). It would be good if these could be made with a Compose key but Windows doesn't support this (AFAIK) so it would need to be implemented in the firmware if it is possible.

Could you give me some pointers, direct me in the right direction (maybe there's some design that would need to be only slightly modified but not widely known so I didn't come across them) or give me some advice? Did you maybe meet another Hungarian who did a custom keyboard that addressed the problem of right pinky overuse, always needing the AltGr for common programming characters like ;{}[]<>*$@&|\ and the other serious problems with this "great" layout?

Before it becomes a problem, I'd like say that I don't want any of you to solve all my problems or anything like that. I expect only some ideas, good advice and maybe some hyperlinks to things that would be of use to me but I've overlooked during my research. You know, I'm just after that obscure knowledge possessed only by those who are in this scene since its birth

Thank you and sorry for the long post.

[Laser]

Hi and welcome!

One thing you can do with a dedicated firmware (TMK, QMK), regardless of your intended layout, is this: use SPACE (or any similar, convenient thumb key) as a dual-role key: SPACE when tapped (pressed-and-released), but FUNCTION when pressed (in combination with another key). In this way many common characters could be moved to a FN combo. If you have a split spacebar, better yet, you can use one half as FN (when pressed), and the other as AltGr (also when pressed).

[pixelheresy]

It may be a little tricky re: the key layout, but if you are going custom, using TMK or QMK, you can have an ANSI enter but ISO left shift. Is the short left shift a problem? If so, do a "Focus"-like layout and split the right shift and put it on the outside of the right shift [under the enter]. I am never one to like shortening the backspace, but some people are cool with that.

Or using corded functions or tap vs hold functions for the missing key can work. For example, Right Ctl is rarely used by *anyone* on a day to day, so having tap = the accented i and hold being Right Ctrl would be an easy map.

Others here may have a better idea re: keeping costs down. Getting a custom plate milled can get pricy.

[Rezrex]

Thanks for the replies!

One thing you can do with a dedicated firmware (TMK, QMK), regardless of your intended layout, is this: use SPACE (or any similar, convenient thumb key) as a dual-role key: SPACE when tapped (pressed-and-released), but FUNCTION when pressed (in combination with another key). In this way many common characters could be moved to a FN combo. If you have a split spacebar, better yet, you can use one half as FN (when pressed), and the other as AltGr (also when pressed).

Yes, this is something I need to consider, especially since I'd like all those programming characters also in an easy to use place, so an FN layer that's easy to press (i.e. under the thumb) is already a necessity for me. Thx for the tip

It may be a little tricky re: the key layout, but if you are going custom, using TMK or QMK, you can have an ANSI enter but ISO left shift. Is the short left shift a problem? If so, do a "Focus"-like layout and split the right shift and put it on the outside of the right shift [under the enter]. I am never one to like shortening the backspace, but some people are cool with that.

Or using corded functions or tap vs hold functions for the missing key can work. For example, Right Ctl is rarely used by *anyone* on a day to day, so having tap = the accented i and hold being Right Ctrl would be an easy map.

Others here may have a better idea re: keeping costs down. Getting a custom plate milled can get pricy.

Well, I don't really want to shorten the Shift keys or the Backspace. The Left Shift was always problematic for me, even to this day (I'm touch typing since around 2006) I frequently hit the accented i instead of Shift when typing in a hurry. The only acceptable shortening for me would be on the Right Shift, by placing accented i under the Enter like you suggested. It would be a bit awkward to hit, but not too much. Thx for the idea!

The dual role keys are really good in theory, but I have a reservation. I've tried this approach once using AHK and it wasn't really reliable. Does it get better if it's implemented in firmware instead of a user-space script?

The custom plate probably won't be a problem. I attend university by correspondence and I have some acquaintances from there who attend the engineering programme. They have a course on CNC and access to a CNC workshop. I may be able to convince one of them to do my custom plate during workshop practice.