Navless IBM AT layout mechanical keyboard

gogo_2

23 Jun 2019, 18:57

Hi everyone. I am looking for a birthday gift for my father who is a "when I was young there was no arrow keys. I never use them." softwere engineer. He says thet keyboard is not that important and uses models like K120 for years, so I think that good quality mech with that particular layout(and ideally with light gray/white/baige color scheme) would be a great present, but I don't think that such a thing exists.

I found CM Masterkeys M and Vortex Vibe, but Vibe doesn't have f key row which is a must have in this case.and they both behave slightly different than I want - numlock switches between numpad and TKL modes, not numpad/2-4-8-6 arrows mode like in the IBM AT keyboard.

Is there any chance of finding/building(from buyable parts) such a keyboard?

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Chyros

23 Jun 2019, 19:29

To clarify, you don't mean an actual IBM Model F AT?

Rezene

23 Jun 2019, 20:58

Can't you get any board with an at layout? Does it have to be modern

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Howard81

24 Jun 2019, 14:39

Buying an original IBM AT keyboard would tick all the boxes perfectly..

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AJM

24 Jun 2019, 23:14

I understand your father only too well. Noticing that there are still options for keyboards without that horrid nav cluster restarted my interest in keyboards not too long ago.
You can reprogram the Vibe to that classic numpad-arrow-mode (which I also prefer), but you have to use a few tricks and you lose the switchability between numbers and arrows.
There are a few custom keyboards with a layout like a ViBE + an additional row for F-keys etc., but these are usually Group buys and not readily available (and relatively expensive).

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User101

25 Jun 2019, 12:26

Why don't you just buy him a at keyboard then, theres plenty around.

andrewjoy

25 Jun 2019, 18:17

He makes a good point. All they had to do was move down arrwo from 2 and move it to 5 and not bother with the whole silly nav cluster to begin with.

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depletedvespene

25 Jun 2019, 18:28

andrewjoy wrote:
25 Jun 2019, 18:17
He makes a good point. All they had to do was move down arrwo from 2 and move it to 5 and not bother with the whole silly nav cluster to begin with.
As someone who, back in the '80s, was moving around constantly on the cells of 1-2-3 spreadsheets, inputting numbers... I disagree. Dedicated arrow keys were phantastic (although I would have preferred to have had them on the left side of the keyboard, so I would have navigated with my left hand and typed in numbers with the right one).

gogo_2

26 Jun 2019, 00:16

Thanks guys for replies and discussion.
The main conslusion is: there is no such keyboard on the market.

Personally, I am a full size keyboard user with always-on numlock. I prefer to take advantage of all available keys.

Regarding my dad, I can
- buy original AT
- buy Masterkeys M, which is also kind of ugly, and reprogram it
- go hell custom, which is difficult and very expensive
- compromise with 90% like FC980M or even just good quality fullsize

Unfortunately I think that last option will be the best.

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Darkshado

26 Jun 2019, 06:07

What about an 1800 layout? Or something even smaller like a 60% ?

samuelcable

26 Jun 2019, 06:12

andrewjoy wrote:
25 Jun 2019, 18:17
He makes a good point. All they had to do was move down arrwo from 2 and move it to 5 and not bother with the whole silly nav cluster to begin with.
eh, i use the numpad in combination with the arrow keys, constantly toggling between the 2 "modes" would have been awful for me

Findecanor

28 Jun 2019, 10:20

gogo_2 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 00:16
- compromise with 90% like FC980M or even just good quality fullsize

Unfortunately I think that last option will be the best.
I would choose the Leopold. They make high-quality keyboards.
If you would go with an actual Model F AT then you would miss the F11 and F12 keys, which are used in a lot of programs.

Fkazim

28 Jun 2019, 11:16

Findecanor wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 10:20
gogo_2 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 00:16
- compromise with 90% like FC980M or even just good quality fullsize

Unfortunately I think that last option will be the best.
I would choose the Leopold. They make high-quality keyboards.
If you would go with an actual Model F AT then you would miss the F11 and F12 keys, which are used in a lot of programs.
You can always remap F11, F12. My Model F AT is mapped so Control + F9 outputs F11 and Control + F10 outputs F12 works great for my Daily driver Model F AT

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Chyros

28 Jun 2019, 13:00

Fkazim wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 11:16
Findecanor wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 10:20
gogo_2 wrote:
26 Jun 2019, 00:16
- compromise with 90% like FC980M or even just good quality fullsize

Unfortunately I think that last option will be the best.
I would choose the Leopold. They make high-quality keyboards.
If you would go with an actual Model F AT then you would miss the F11 and F12 keys, which are used in a lot of programs.
You can always remap F11, F12. My Model F AT is mapped so Control + F9 outputs F11 and Control + F10 outputs F12 works great for my Daily driver Model F AT
Alternatively, I've found a macro pad to be a fantastic enhancement in general :D .

Fkazim

28 Jun 2019, 14:02

Chyros wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 13:00
Fkazim wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 11:16
Findecanor wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 10:20

I would choose the Leopold. They make high-quality keyboards.
If you would go with an actual Model F AT then you would miss the F11 and F12 keys, which are used in a lot of programs.
You can always remap F11, F12. My Model F AT is mapped so Control + F9 outputs F11 and Control + F10 outputs F12 works great for my Daily driver Model F AT
Alternatively, I've found a macro pad to be a fantastic enhancement in general :D .
I was going to use a macro pad for my AT but could not find any that had a similar design and switch type. For me switching from a buckling spring switch to something like blue Alps or white Alps switches would feel very weird. As this was the case I could not justify using a macropad. However if there is a macropad with buckling spring switches for a reasonable price please let me know as I would love something like that.

Thanks.

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Chyros

28 Jun 2019, 14:57

Fkazim wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 14:02
Chyros wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 13:00
Fkazim wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 11:16


You can always remap F11, F12. My Model F AT is mapped so Control + F9 outputs F11 and Control + F10 outputs F12 works great for my Daily driver Model F AT
Alternatively, I've found a macro pad to be a fantastic enhancement in general :D .
I was going to use a macro pad for my AT but could not find any that had a similar design and switch type. For me switching from a buckling spring switch to something like blue Alps or white Alps switches would feel very weird. As this was the case I could not justify using a macropad. However if there is a macropad with buckling spring switches for a reasonable price please let me know as I would love something like that.

Thanks.
Maybe an M50?

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depletedvespene

28 Jun 2019, 15:40

Chyros wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 13:00
Fkazim wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 11:16
Findecanor wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 10:20

I would choose the Leopold. They make high-quality keyboards.
If you would go with an actual Model F AT then you would miss the F11 and F12 keys, which are used in a lot of programs.
You can always remap F11, F12. My Model F AT is mapped so Control + F9 outputs F11 and Control + F10 outputs F12 works great for my Daily driver Model F AT
Alternatively, I've found a macro pad to be a fantastic enhancement in general :D .
If we ever manage to manufacture new F keyboards, one of the form factors we are going to need is a "single row pad", so we can put it right above the F AT's top bezel and have an AT layout with F row.

Fkazim

28 Jun 2019, 16:41

Chyros wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 14:57
Fkazim wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 14:02
Chyros wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 13:00
Alternatively, I've found a macro pad to be a fantastic enhancement in general :D .
I was going to use a macro pad for my AT but could not find any that had a similar design and switch type. For me switching from a buckling spring switch to something like blue Alps or white Alps switches would feel very weird. As this was the case I could not justify using a macropad. However if there is a macropad with buckling spring switches for a reasonable price please let me know as I would love something like that.

Thanks.
Maybe an M50?
Just had a look online oh that fits the look of an Model F very well but they do not go for a reasonable price not this one anyways see the attached image for the price ($500) I brought whole full size 1st gen silver label Model M's for less than that WTF!!!
Attachments
M50.PNG
M50.PNG (409.97 KiB) Viewed 739 times

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depletedvespene

28 Jun 2019, 16:45

Chyros wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 14:57
Fkazim wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 14:02
Chyros wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 13:00
Alternatively, I've found a macro pad to be a fantastic enhancement in general :D .
I was going to use a macro pad for my AT but could not find any that had a similar design and switch type. For me switching from a buckling spring switch to something like blue Alps or white Alps switches would feel very weird. As this was the case I could not justify using a macropad. However if there is a macropad with buckling spring switches for a reasonable price please let me know as I would love something like that.

Thanks.
Maybe an M50?
I'll vouch for the usefulness of an M50. Not at ludicrous prices, though.

gogo_2

28 Jun 2019, 22:16

depletedvespene wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 15:40
Chyros wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 13:00
Fkazim wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 11:16


You can always remap F11, F12. My Model F AT is mapped so Control + F9 outputs F11 and Control + F10 outputs F12 works great for my Daily driver Model F AT
Alternatively, I've found a macro pad to be a fantastic enhancement in general :D .
If we ever manage to manufacture new F keyboards, one of the form factors we are going to need is a "single row pad", so we can put it right above the F AT's top bezel and have an AT layout with F row.
Exactly, such thing would be ideal.
Attachments
Screenshot-(10).jpg
Screenshot-(10).jpg (81.79 KiB) Viewed 688 times

Fkazim

28 Jun 2019, 22:51

This looks like a cool macropad type thing that should fit really well on a Model F AT. What switches do you think this uses?
Attachments
Key patch AT Images.PNG
Key patch AT Images.PNG (1.35 MiB) Viewed 676 times

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Polecat

29 Jun 2019, 05:38

Fkazim wrote:
28 Jun 2019, 22:51
This looks like a cool macropad type thing that should fit really well on a Model F AT. What switches do you think this uses?
Not sure if it's related, but I just found a bigger macropad from Genovation in my storage, and it has Cherry M8 open mechanism switches, which feel pretty awful to me. Similar name, but not the same.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19976&start=90

Fkazim

29 Jun 2019, 11:19

That macropad you linked me looks amazing shame the switches feel bad.

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