Siemens F500

takospite · 16 Jun 2019, 00:46

Seems brand new and original packaged. I really would like to use it, unfortunately it is do not works with my din to minidin adapter, maybe you guys helps me figures out a way : )

OleVoip · 21 Jun 2019, 15:20

This keyboard was made by Falco for their F500 terminal, which was sold by Siemens as an operator's terminal for their HICOM 300-series telephone exchanges around 1990. Here you can find photos of it

Falco branding: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/ ... /pictures/
Siemens branding: http://www.retrocomputing.net/parts/SIEMENS/F500/

I think it's got an AT-like interface, but it could also be PC-XT, and the pin assignment might be different. Early Falco terminals used XT I'm afraid, you'll have to open the board and trace the power lines; thereafter, you can find Data and Clock by trial and error.

OleVoip · 24 Jun 2019, 13:28

I new, I've seen it somewhere, but now I remember, kbdbabel has the pinout:
http://www.kbdbabel.org/conn/kbd_connector_falco.png

Note that the scan codes are likely to need remapping.

BadCommand · 20 Apr 2020, 14:36

Hi there, first post here. Sorry for the necro, but I've got a similar keyboard from the Falco 500 series. From the Quick Setup Manual 1987 (up two directories from the bitsavers link in OleVoip's post) it looks like Falco offered a couple different layouts. I saw this discussion on GH regarding a Falco 5220 keyboard with Cherry MX blacks like yours, and thought it interesting that mine had Hosiden linear switches, ~50 g actuation, ~60 g bottom out. They are very smooth even when dirty and well-used. Only the return, shift keys, and spacebar are stabilized (the others are stepped). The keycaps are pretty nice PBT (except for the spacebar) with dye-sub legends that I've seen on some other terminal boards here on DT. It uses the XT protocol and works well with a Soarer's converter.

takospite · 18 Aug 2020, 11:10

BadCommand wrote: ↑
20 Apr 2020, 14:36
Hi there, first post here. Sorry for the necro, but I've got a similar keyboard from the Falco 500 series. From the Quick Setup Manual 1987 (up two directories from the bitsavers link in OleVoip's post) it looks like Falco offered a couple different layouts. I saw this discussion on GH regarding a Falco 5220 keyboard with Cherry MX blacks like yours, and thought it interesting that mine had Hosiden linear switches, ~50 g actuation, ~60 g bottom out. They are very smooth even when dirty and well-used. Only the return, shift keys, and spacebar are stabilized (the others are stepped). The keycaps are pretty nice PBT (except for the spacebar) with dye-sub legends that I've seen on some other terminal boards here on DT. It uses the XT protocol and works well with a Soarer's converter.

Is it work with a passive minidin converter?

BadCommand · 06 Sep 2020, 12:21

I'm afraid that it will not work directly with a modern computer since the protocol is XT, not AT. You'll need an active converter.

mikhail · 08 Oct 2020, 00:52

BadCommand wrote: ↑
06 Sep 2020, 12:21
I'm afraid that it will not work directly with a modern computer since the protocol is XT, not AT. You'll need an active converter.

Hello! I have same Siemens F500 keyboard, and ready to purchase an XT-converter, but, i think about strange 5 (without chassis ground) wires in the connector. What if it's not XT?
Or it's PC (Type 1) with -reset pin? Will XT adapters work with this?

BadCommand · 08 Oct 2020, 11:14

I haven't got better pictures at the moment but mine looks similar. I'll let the protocol specialists add the details.

hellothere · 16 Oct 2020, 00:05

I bought a keyboard from Redmaus, opened it up and it's a 1987 Falco 5220 keyboard. It's a really interesting keyboard. The switches are USw LMBW01 and 02. Linear. A Cherry-mount keycap will fit, albeit a little snugly. Metal mounting plate.

I bought the keyboard because I had initially thought (and it was advertised by Redmaus as) having Mitsumi Miniature Mechanical switches, which I've never tried. It was a bonus to find out that it had rare/uncommon switches.

I do have a question for the group. If you look at the keyboard's "main" QWERTY sections, you see (dirty) white key caps next to (dirty) yellowed caps and all the white keys have the brown legends printed on the side. Is it possible that the white keys are PBT and the yellowed ones are ABS?

BTW, I think I bought the other keyboard Redmaus had with the same switches. Hey, I needed a complete set of key caps.

FWIW, I did try to connect this to my 90-degree 5-pin DIN Soarer's Converter. It didn't work, neither did a 5 pin DIN to PS/2 adapter. I'm going to be getting a few Pro Micros in, soon, and I'll see if I can make an adapter that works.

As I'm not fond of linear switches, I'll make the two keyboards into one complete one and then probably post here. Maybe send the other one to Chyros?

The below pics were taken with a potato. Not that a better camera would do me any good.

Spoiler:

Missing a couple caps.

Spoiler:

Definitely a Falco.

Spoiler:

Pretty keys.

Spoiler:

Terminal keys

Spoiler:

Ma! Can you take me down to the libry?

Spoiler:

Dead key. Just in time for Halloween.

BadCommand · 17 Oct 2020, 19:28

Nice keyboard, looks kind of familiar

The case on mine seems to have come from the same mold. I'm surprised to see how many different switches Falco used.

I've seen differing degrees of yellowing on ABS keys on the same keyboard before, but in this case I think you are right that the keys with print on the front are PBT. It seems to have been common practice to mix plastics and/or print methods if necessary. I don't think they expected the ABS to yellow so much, or maybe for their keyboards to still be in use 35 years later...

Hope you can get it back into service!

BadCommand · 17 Oct 2020, 19:29

Also I am wondering what color that PF1 key really is! That numpad is a looker.

hellothere · 18 Oct 2020, 05:07

BadCommand wrote: ↑
17 Oct 2020, 19:29
Also I am wondering what color that PF1 key really is! That numpad is a looker.

It was completely unintentional, but the picture really did come out good and the color you see is pretty much what it looks like in real life. I think it might lighten a bit if I decide to retr0bright it. I am a bit wary of using retr0bright because I saw a comment on the original thread on these switches that said the printing on the caps might be silk screened. I've never retr0brighted silk screened keycaps.

I also just got a Wang 724/725 (bought from another DeskThority member!) that has this beautiful num pad.

kps · 18 Oct 2020, 16:45

BadCommand wrote: ↑
17 Oct 2020, 19:29
Also I am wondering what color that PF1 key really is!

“Gold”. It's an LK201 clone with keycaps for WPS/PLUS; this is the DEC original.

JensD · 18 Oct 2020, 20:30

Just a little question. There is a Siemens F500 on german eBay and it has Cherry MX black. Can I assume that these are vintage blacks?
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Retro-Mechanisc ... SwuNVfHwQc

hellothere · 19 Oct 2020, 00:30

kps wrote: ↑
18 Oct 2020, 16:45

BadCommand wrote: ↑
17 Oct 2020, 19:29
Also I am wondering what color that PF1 key really is!
“Gold”. It's an LK201 clone with keycaps for WPS/PLUS; this is the DEC original.

Cool. So, several shades brighter.

@JensD I know that the serial on the one on ebay is just a few off from the one in takospite's post, but I'm definitely not up on the dating of either Siemens keyboards or what the years were for "Cherry vintage black." However, the ebay one is probably around 1990, based on the other keyboards in this thread.

JensD · 19 Oct 2020, 18:09

hellothere wrote: ↑
19 Oct 2020, 00:30
@JensD I know that the serial on the one on ebay is just a few off from the one in takospite's post, but I'm definitely not up on the dating of either Siemens keyboards or what the years were for "Cherry vintage black." However, the ebay one is probably around 1990, based on the other keyboards in this thread.

Thanks for your advice. So I guess chances are quite good that is has vintage blacks and then the price would be ok. Need to think over it...

JensD · 06 Nov 2020, 09:42

I couldn't resist and bought the keyboard. Overall, it's nice, but there are downsides too.

Pros:
- build quality is good, heavy and very rigid
- I like MX black in general. Linear is right for me.
- typing is fun, I reach high speeds.

Cons:
- the keys are scratchy, I have no comparison but I would like to rule out that these are vintage MX blacks. They are even worse than my new MX Blacks.
- the keys are hard to press, quite stiff. Way stiffer than my new MX Black.
- some keys are very sensitive to off center press, similar to Cherry MY. They feel mushy when pressed off center. Often the key press is not recognized. This applies especially for the wider keys.
- the key sound is quite high, not as deep and pleasant as MX clear.
- the stabilizers are really bad and some even squeak.
- due to the metal mounting plate, the keyboard makes metallic noises when the keys bottom out.
- it often does not work when connected to the computer. If you reconnect it repeatedly, it will work at some point.
- due to the platemount, I cannot mod the stabilizers (clip, lube, band aid)
- the platemout makes it harder or even impossible to mod the keys (swap spring, lubing, swap stem)
- the keycaps are really bad, seem to be printed, not even laser print. Cheap plastic some are yellowed.
- the distance between the stabilizers for the space bar is not compatible with Cherry. This means that no other space bar can be used.
- the additional key "Term Func" cannot be used, does not trigger a keypress