F62+F77 orders now open! New Kishsaver+Industrial Model F Keyboards

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troglotype

23 Nov 2020, 16:53

tron wrote:
20 Nov 2020, 22:02
@pandrew, would it be possible to have access to the QMK beta ?
Try writing Pandrew a DM. He's not always checking the thread (also, QMK truly rocks on the brand new Model F keyboards)

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Elrick

24 Nov 2020, 03:34

Excuse my complete ignorance here in relation to colours that are available for the F77 keyboard case;

BUT is their any links showing the REAL colours that are offered for the Aluminium Casing within the F77 division?

Need to place another order, this time for an Aluminium Case Model-F.

Sorry for this, like I said before, old and extremely lazy comes bundled together, here down under :mrgreen: .

Meowmaritus

24 Nov 2020, 03:55

Just wanted to say I received my keyboard and it is by far the most comfortable and satisfying keyboard I've ever typed on. I'm autistic with rather poor finger dexterity, which means having a very crisp tactile keyboard helps me greatly with my accuracy. However, most tactile switches either require a lot of force to press OR aren't tactile enough. This is definitely more than tactile enough and yet extremely easy to press, so I'm very pleased with it. I'm sure once I get the proper keycaps instead of these kinda crappy Unicomp ones it will feel a bit nicer. Really happy it came with stabilizers, by the way. I had tons of binding on my Unicomp keyboard so I didn't want to bother with those stabilizers (and they're also extremely hard to get out) so I was really happy to see that it came with more than enough new stabilizers.

So yeah, I'm already enjoying using this for all of my programming work, at home where I can be as extremely loud as I want of course ;)

Ellipse

24 Nov 2020, 05:30

Hi Elrick, I have created a photo album of various new Model F keyboard combinations so far: https://imgur.com/a/gw8FOl0

Not sure if you saw my recent posts but we got some great results with the sublimated keys finally - well worth the wait to get the keys sublimated this nicely! We are not done yet though as these results still need work with accuracy/alignment but the sublimation is good so far.
Meowmaritus wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 03:55
Just wanted to say I received my keyboard and it is by far the most comfortable and satisfying keyboard I've ever typed on. I'm autistic with rather poor finger dexterity, which means having a very crisp tactile keyboard helps me greatly with my accuracy. However, most tactile switches either require a lot of force to press OR aren't tactile enough. This is definitely more than tactile enough and yet extremely easy to press, so I'm very pleased with it. I'm sure once I get the proper keycaps instead of these kinda crappy Unicomp ones it will feel a bit nicer. Really happy it came with stabilizers, by the way. I had tons of binding on my Unicomp keyboard so I didn't want to bother with those stabilizers (and they're also extremely hard to get out) so I was really happy to see that it came with more than enough new stabilizers.

So yeah, I'm already enjoying using this for all of my programming work, at home where I can be as extremely loud as I want of course ;)
Thanks for posting this update. Glad the keyboard is working well so far!

DeScruff

24 Nov 2020, 06:45

Hey, I love the keyboard so far but I seem to be having some weird random key presses ever now and again. Ive tried removing my keys and reinserting them just as the video on the site shows, but that doesn't seem to have fixed anything.

Its usually with keys like Caps Lock, \, Enter, Home, End exc. At least thats what I can tell using an online keyboard tester and typing 'the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" over and over again. - Actually its happened a few times typing this out.
It doesn't seem to happen when I'm not typing leading me to wonder if its a debouncing issue?

I *think* I'm on the QMK firmware? (based on how Windows: Devices and Printers says "modelfkeyboards.com Brand New F62/F77 Model F Keybard by Model F Labs" and how it is a recently sent out board?)

Ellipse

27 Nov 2020, 20:48

DeScruff (and anyone else with QMK issues) please do PM pandrew with the details of your setup and of the issue you are having. Yep every board sent out in the past several months has been sent out with QMK firmware. pandrew updated the beta firmware recently but I am still using older firmware until the beta beta testers (ha!) have had enough time with the latest versions.

On modelfkeyboards.com/code you can download various JSON layout files to use on the beta QMK site to compile with the new firmware if you'd like.

User avatar
Elrick

28 Nov 2020, 07:02

Ellipse wrote:
24 Nov 2020, 05:30
Hi Elrick, I have created a photo album of various new Model F keyboard combinations so far: https://imgur.com/a/gw8FOl0

Not sure if you saw my recent posts but we got some great results with the sublimated keys finally - well worth the wait to get the keys sublimated this nicely! We are not done yet though as these results still need work with accuracy/alignment but the sublimation is good so far.
YES indeed, thanks for the colour supply examples.

Look, I've waited on this keyboard for such a long time, so I am willing to still take this train further with another purchase which shall include your splendid dye sub key-sets.

With this Covid disaster, which is not your fault here at all, most of your time lines will be extended quite naturally.

Still worth the wait simply because this is a Model-F keyboard which no one else on Planet Earth is doing.

Shall be clutching my Model-F77 ticket orders, even when I finally get lodged into my coffin, I shall be still holding them in my hands.....

BucklingSprings

30 Nov 2020, 19:21

darkcruix wrote:
19 Nov 2020, 20:55
cloudhax wrote:
19 Nov 2020, 19:38
finally ordered one, eager to join the fun
Nice! Even after a few months I am still happy like a child on X-mas morning. I am so full of joy, when typing on it, I can't even tell.
Same thing here. During work (from home) I sometimes stop and remind myself what a treasure it is that I am typing on.

russcule

01 Dec 2020, 22:16

If this has been posted before, apologies, and please say where: otherwise, looking for ideas on a suitable soft case for the F62, not just for travel but to ward off pet hair, dust and other small keyboard irritants day-to-day. The usual cases don’t seem thick enough.

gliucf

05 Dec 2020, 15:41

Hi all,
I received my F62 this week and am really enjoying typing on it so far. Thanks, Ellipse!

One problem I am having: both of the Alt keys graze against the spacebar wire, so that if I press down both Alt keys at once, it depresses and activates the spacebar. (I'm using Ellipse's blank keycaps.) Does anyone else have experience with this problem, or advice about what to do? I assume I should try reinstalling the spacebar, but I don't have a sense of what I should be trying to do when I install it to prevent the problem from rearising.

Ellipse

06 Dec 2020, 01:08

Gliucf I have tested thoroughly to make sure the space bar wire does not tough the alt keys as they are pressed. I am guessing that the space bar wire was somehow bent out of shape. Bending it in a way that puts it away from the path of the alt keys is probably the recommended solution. Please keep me updated over PM.

photometer

07 Dec 2020, 04:15

I received my Model F77 this week.

I have a Model-M (original), Unicomp Model-M, Cherry Mx Blue and Topre Realforce R2 and added Model-F to the family.

Pros
1. It is heavy and sturdy. No chassis flex.
2. I transferred the keycaps from my Unicomp Model-M. It was a smooth process. I just and remove and reinsert couple of keys to get it working.

Cons:
1. I have been using the Topre switches for last few months so transitioning to a Model-F this week. I notice that I am making more spelling mistakes with Model-F keyboard than compared to the Realforce-R2, especially around space bar. Hence instead of typing "hello world", I would be typing "hellow orld". I wonder if anybody else is seeing this issue. If a second keystroke comes very close to the space key, then the second keystroke gets registered before the space. Actually I hade to correct numerous space related mistakes in the message that I just typed. To eliminate possibility of buckling spring vs Topre behavior, I connected my IBM Model-M and I was able type without spelling mistakes. So, I think there is some issue with the Model-F. I hope this is a firmware issue related to when key strokes are sensed and registered and hopefully can be solved.
2. The "Esc" key is multiplexed with the `~ keys. Hence to press tilde, I would have to press Fn+Shift+Esc. The keycap on the product page does not have `~ printed along with "Esc".

bondeski

07 Dec 2020, 08:43

numist wrote:
11 Sep 2020, 21:17
darkcruix wrote:
11 Sep 2020, 14:35
@numist, can you post a picture of both ends of the soldering? Sometimes just a little bend / pressure can cause a column not to register if the soldering has a flaw. I had this with my self modified keyboards.
I neglected to take any pictures of the solder job when it arrived, but here's how it looks now:

Image
gianni wrote:
11 Sep 2020, 16:42
Incredible picture, how close is this to what you actually see? I mean, is it really so red??
I'm colourblind but my wife says it's pretty accurate. Had to manually adjust the white balance (to 5500K) because AWB kept trying to "correct" for it. It was a super weird day.
Hey @Numist, did you ever find a solution to this other than loosening your case? I seem to have just encountered the exact same problem. Works fine outside the case, but after tightening everything down I lose a column with similar keys.

Ellipse

07 Dec 2020, 14:57

Photometric please PM pandrew with specifics on your setup and issue if you don't mind. Does your issue happen with specific keys more than others? Maybe a spring or keycap needs reseating? Check the manual on the project web site for tips if needed.

People have been able to type at more than 120 wpm with these keyboards without any errors, and on various setups.

Numist and bondeski I recommend touching up the solder on both the top side of the controller as well as both sides of the capacitive pcb ribbon holes.

bondeski

07 Dec 2020, 21:41

I've managed to get it working once again. I pressed down on the fold in the ribbon cable to give it a little more clearance from the backplate and placed a piece of electrical tape on the soldering, between the controller and the backplate. That was enough to fix the issue. Interestingly, when I was troubleshooting disassembling and reassembling the case, different columns would go out. Initially it was 56tygb and space. Second time in was jki89nm or along those lines.

Ellipse

08 Dec 2020, 01:28

Bondeski I do not have your user name associated with an order and do not know the style of your new Model F but your fix was especially useful for some ultra compact keyboards. In some units an extra layer of polyimide or electrical tape is needed to prevent the controller from touching the bottom of the case. A while back I notified the factory and they reinspected every keyboard to correct any issues for both compact and classic models.

bondeski

08 Dec 2020, 20:42

Ellipse wrote:
08 Dec 2020, 01:28
Bondeski I do not have your user name associated with an order and do not know the style of your new Model F but your fix was especially useful for some ultra compact keyboards. In some units an extra layer of polyimide or electrical tape is needed to prevent the controller from touching the bottom of the case. A while back I notified the factory and they reinspected every keyboard to correct any issues for both compact and classic models.
Hey Ellipse, Bondeski is just an alias for abondesson. I have a standard F77 in the black ultra compact case, for your records. This project is incredible and I want to thank you and Pandrew again for all the support getting these things running with QMK.

Ellipse

10 Dec 2020, 00:30

ok sounds good and thanks for the kind words!

As an update I've been having some email deliverability issues in recent weeks. I worked with my web hosting provider and I think the issues have been resolved. The issue was for people emailing me for the first time in the past few weeks (not an issue from those emailing me in reply to one of my emails). Please do let me know over PM if you are still having issues emailing me through the project web site and please do feel free to follow up if I haven't replied within a few days.

Ellipse

11 Dec 2020, 15:38

Second container shipment update: The factory continues to finish up quality control re-inspection and repairs with the remaining keyboards as detailed before. This work has taken significantly longer than expected. The container shipment is now preparing for a departure in about 2-3 weeks, meaning it would be arriving around the end of January or early February. I would have hoped that the shipment could have gone out far sooner of course but the quality control of the goods and making repairs were more important than meeting a timeline. And as noted before, having me do all the repairs (even if the shipment went out earlier) would have significantly bottlenecked the QC and shipping process more than having the factory team take care of it.

Dye sublimation update: The factory continues to improve the placement of the sublimation. Results have improved from the previously posted test. Fewer keys are noticeably out of place. They are continuing to work on this. Please disregard the wrong color used on some of the test keys; all keys will be the correct color for production. I am hoping for everything to be finalized this month with dye sublimation to begin in January before the weekslong Chinese New Year break.
Recent dye sublimation test.jpg
Recent dye sublimation test.jpg (1.89 MiB) Viewed 2325 times

dad

12 Dec 2020, 11:51

Ellipse wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 15:38
...the quality control of the goods and making repairs were more important than meeting a timeline...
Agree, for me it's OK to not get my F77 in 2020, could wait even more if quality requires it. So is there a chance that the goods from the second container start shipping to us in February-March 2021 with printed keys? Or some layouts(non English/US) may require even more time...

Ellipse

12 Dec 2020, 15:27

Yep February is the expectation. I do not know the specifics of the quantity and layout timelimes just yet.

Sp33ls

14 Dec 2020, 22:06

Ellipse wrote:
11 Dec 2020, 15:38
having me do all the repairs (even if the shipment went out earlier) would have significantly bottlenecked the QC and shipping process more than having the factory team take care of it.
Thanks for the update! Does this mean that the boards will essentially be blasted out to folks as soon as they arrive, or will they still undergo a QA check from you prior to shipping (and hoping that now there will be significantly less repairs required)?

Personally, I put more faith in your scrutiny. :D

photometer

15 Dec 2020, 00:47

@Ellipse
I have a F77 keyboard (shipped early without keys) and am expecting for right keys with Print Screen/Scroll Lock etc.

1. Will you be shipping only 77 keys or 103/104 keys?
2. Will it be possible to add additional "Fn" key ?

Ellipse

15 Dec 2020, 02:38

Sp33ls I still do a QA for every keyboard but each QA should be far faster with the QA from the factory beforehand.

photometer everyone gets a full key set if they order a key set (outside of the smaller key sets like F1-F12, Industrial SSK 12 key set, etc. of course). And yes feel free to add extra keys and other accessories by browsing the project web site - store page.

photometer

16 Dec 2020, 21:14

Review after two weeks of use.
I got the original (zinc) F77 keyboard and my overall impression has been positive so far.

Here the customizations that I did.

1. Floss modded all the alpha keys, space bar, shift, enter and backspace. I kept the number keys and the right keypad un-modded to hear the ping sound once in a while. I had no issue with floss mod. I kept the length of the floss to be 3/4th the length of the spring.
2. I had some squeaking sound from the space bar (not rattling). I added some PTFE grease where the metal stabilizer touches the keyboard or the spacebar key. Not only it removed the squeaking sound, it also reduced the space bar rattling sound.
3. Key Remapping: I downloaded the QMK beta software and built it locally on my windows machine (Thanks pandrew for support).

Since there are no led lights indicating the status of the CapsLock, I was running into an issue where sometimes the CapsLock gets turned on and I am on VI editor and my keys would behave differently. I used QMK to remap the Scroll Lock to clear the CapsLock. If I press this new key, it always sets CapsLock to Off. I used the Scroll Lock key as I don't have any use of Scroll Lock.

I added a dedicated ~ ` key. I used the blank key on the left of the up arrow key in the numberpad. Folks working with git will appreciate the use of ~ key. By default, one would have to do Fn+shift+Esc to get the ~.

Mapped the NumLock key (second right to spacebar) to Fn key. I have no use for NumLock as I have print/scroll/Pause key configuration on the right keypad.

Mapped the third right key after spacebar back to Ctrl key (it was mapped by default of Fn key).

Ellipse

17 Dec 2020, 04:44

photometer wrote:
16 Dec 2020, 21:14
Review after two weeks of use.
I got the original (zinc) F77 keyboard and my overall impression has been positive so far.

Here the customizations that I did.

1. Floss modded all the alpha keys, space bar, shift, enter and backspace. I kept the number keys and the right keypad un-modded to hear the ping sound once in a while. I had no issue with floss mod. I kept the length of the floss to be 3/4th the length of the spring.
2. I had some squeaking sound from the space bar (not rattling). I added some PTFE grease where the metal stabilizer touches the keyboard or the spacebar key. Not only it removed the squeaking sound, it also reduced the space bar rattling sound.
3. Key Remapping: I downloaded the QMK beta software and built it locally on my windows machine (Thanks pandrew for support).

Since there are no led lights indicating the status of the CapsLock, I was running into an issue where sometimes the CapsLock gets turned on and I am on VI editor and my keys would behave differently. I used QMK to remap the Scroll Lock to clear the CapsLock. If I press this new key, it always sets CapsLock to Off. I used the Scroll Lock key as I don't have any use of Scroll Lock.

I added a dedicated ~ ` key. I used the blank key on the left of the up arrow key in the numberpad. Folks working with git will appreciate the use of ~ key. By default, one would have to do Fn+shift+Esc to get the ~.

Mapped the NumLock key (second right to spacebar) to Fn key. I have no use for NumLock as I have print/scroll/Pause key configuration on the right keypad.

Mapped the third right key after spacebar back to Ctrl key (it was mapped by default of Fn key).
Very helpful tips; thanks photometer for sharing.

If anyone likes virtual keyboard lights I have used this free program in the past: https://keyboard-leds.com/

User avatar
shampoo

17 Dec 2020, 16:44

Ever so often, I have one or several keys in a group that stop registering.. Looking at the manual, it indicates that this is often caused by the pins on the ribbon touching the case and that I should add a strip of electrical tape.. I haven't tried this yet. Is my reading correct in regards to the cause and solution ?

Ellipse

17 Dec 2020, 16:55

Yes correct, since I believe that you have the compact F77.

User avatar
shampoo

17 Dec 2020, 17:04

I do have the compact. I ordered some Polyimide tape.. It's working now but ever so often I start to lose keys.. I'll see if I can hang on until Amazon ships me the tape..

nulani

18 Dec 2020, 19:41

Mine finally arrived today after spending nearly a month in transit. Just in time for Christmas! Typing on it now after a bit of a worrying start where I managed to make the mistake of using the wrong kind of stabiliser insert for the backspace key; ended up disassembling the keyboard to replace the barrel. I recommend everyone have a look through the manual first and don't make the same mistake as me, especially the one where I disassembled the keyboard without removing all the keycaps again first. 🤦‍♀️

All sorted now. Feels so much crisper than my Unicomp Model M. Might harvest the alphanumeric keys from that, although it is a lot easier to type with blank caps than I thought given how I type with floating hands rather than touch type. Need to figure out QMK so I can remap Ctrl and Caps Lock back to their usual positions though.

Thanks for all the effort you've put into reproducing and bringing an amazing keyboard into the modern age and availability, Ellipse.
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