Seeking Soarer - evidence thread

[Bjerrk]

Honestly the galaxy brain tier of this thread that we should essentially dox someone (who might not even be alive?) to get the source to a horrendously outdated bit of code instead of just doing the goddamn work to do it again is absolutely insane.

How much of a dickhead are you gonna feel if you end up contacting someone's widow like "oh hi can I get your dead husband's source please"

I know who you are, you're a computer toucher, stop being lazy.

Speaking of which, I am going back to touching computers to actually do the work. smh at this thread. smh.

Oh, come off that high horse, or I'll doxx it

There is one major flaw with your reasoning:
I am frequently contacted by people I don't know about my own (scientific) work - be it journalists, other researchers or just interested laypersons. Do I mind? No, not as long as they have good intentions and a genuine interest in my work.

Would my wife mind being contacted about my work if I had died? I certainly don't think so, I think she would be proud. And I think it would be entirely within the realms of common decency to do so.

[Muirium]

Aye!

And Soarer’s converter is far from obsolete or even obviated, even today. Try making this. I wish people would!

[shallot]

Come off it Shallot. Read my posts would you? Especially this one:

viewtopic.php?p=487207#p487207

Build me such a multi keyboard multi config converter box and make me see the light! It’s gotta be Soarer, for all I’ve ever found.

nah, you come off it. you're the one engaging in this wackjob thread wherewe apparently just casually dox someone who might be dead because you want to plug keyboards into a box on your desk

i will continue to smh because exactly what you want is my end goal. just, unlike everyone in this thread, i appear to be willing to do the work to make it happen, rather than expending a similar amount of effort harassing someone long gone.

[shallot]

nb: this really wasn't the way i fancied announcing my plans because i really don't like announcing things before they are ready, but holy shit the sheer level of brainworms in this thread compels me

[shallot]

i'm gonna keep posting because i really have to put into words why this entire thread is so insane:

is it really easier to hire attorneys, trawl IP law and dox a guy than it is to write some converter firmware?

the answer: no

if you're that anally agitated that it has to be a SoArEr'S converter, and you somehow think a guy who's been gone for 7 years will suddenly resurrect and sue the shit out of you for maintaining something he released for free and doesn't care about anymore, cleanroom it from the decompiled source. odds are it'll be less of a turd than trying to drag something from the past kicking and screaming into the future anyway.

[Rayndalf]

So you know the code has been reverse engineered in the past, and you likely have access to that code and Soarer is gone and others sell things based on his work?
Just take that "$200" gamble and do it.

No need for it to be "legal". Either improve existing open source solutions or steal Soarer's.

[kelvinhall05]

I too think we should dig up a grave for keyboard converter code from 2013.

[jmaynard]

is it really easier to hire attorneys, trawl IP law and dox a guy than it is to write some converter firmware?

When you already have access to the attorneys and the expertise in IP law, and can crowdsource the necessary information, then the equation changes.

Especially when you consider that, when you reinvent a wheel, you're far more likely to come up with an irregular heptagon than a circle...

I'm going to borrow a line from Eric: quit complaining and show us the code.

[shallot]

nb: this really wasn't the way i fancied announcing my plans because i really don't like announcing things before they are ready, but holy shit the sheer level of brainworms in this thread compels me

[shallot]

sometimes things are unreleased for a reason dumpass, but by all means go chase your rick and morty szechuan sauce instead of being patient for a few weeks while i finish this off and make this entire thread pointless

also holy shit it's tron guy, no way am i gonna take you seriously

[shallot]

in short: piss your pants and get banned from a theater

[depletedvespene]

…
I took a quick look at the source of the 1.10 tools, and if there's any evidence to be found there, I think it's negative. No indication of license, no changelog, not a single comment in the C source (not including the PJRC-copyright files, obviously). To me, this does not look like code which was written with a view to encouraging others to maintain it. It looks like it was written for an audience of one.

I will point out that the above is not necessarily the case. Many older programmers were taught to write the code first, get it to work, then cleanse/delint the source, and only then write all the relevant documentation (this practice being from the time when programs were pretty short and focused on one small thing, something that nowadays is not the case; then again, the software development industry is known to keep as a "best practice" something that isn't so in a different environment). The absence of documentation is consistent with the (potential) scenario of Soarer having had that mindset and dying suddenly, with his project left unfinished, either almost feature-complete or feature-complete but still requiring cleansing+documenting.

[headphone_jack]

As someone with access to more lawyers than I know what to do with, I can tell you that you're looking at a cut and dry harassment lawsuit if you go after his potential widow for this. Maybe just like... write new code? Instead of going after people that disappeared years ago.

[depletedvespene]

As someone with access to more lawyers than I know what to do with, I can tell you that you're looking at a cut and dry harassment lawsuit if you go after his potential widow for this. Maybe just like... write new code? Instead of going after people that disappeared years ago.

So... the best option for the continued usage of a software package that is ubiquitously admired in the community, made by a ubiquitously admired member of the same community, is to... clone his product (with a new name, BTW) instead of recovering the original and ensuring its continued existence as a viable software package.

Not all people are of the "I ain't sharing my precioussss!" mentality; also, asking once, politely, probably does not qualify (IANAL) as "harassment".

[shallot]

As someone with access to more lawyers than I know what to do with, I can tell you that you're looking at a cut and dry harassment lawsuit if you go after his potential widow for this. Maybe just like... write new code? Instead of going after people that disappeared years ago.

So... the best option for the continued usage of a software package that is ubiquitously admired in the community, made by a ubiquitously admired member of the same community, is to... clone his product (with a new name, BTW) instead of recovering the original and ensuring its continued existence as a viable software package.

Not all people are of the "I ain't sharing my precioussss!" mentality; also, asking once, politely, probably does not qualify (IANAL) as "harassment".

Once again, if you're that diaper devastated that it has to be Soarer's and you somehow think he's going to pop out of the woodwork after 7 years and sue, cleanroom it and name it in his e-honoure wow whoa

[esr]

also, asking once, politely, probably does not qualify (IANAL) as "harassment".

It certainly does not.

[shallot]

i'm so glad the tedious boomer linuxman crowd has descended on this forum to embolden the already tedious set of boomers we have here already

[headphone_jack]

As someone with access to more lawyers than I know what to do with, I can tell you that you're looking at a cut and dry harassment lawsuit if you go after his potential widow for this. Maybe just like... write new code? Instead of going after people that disappeared years ago.

So... the best option for the continued usage of a software package that is ubiquitously admired in the community, made by a ubiquitously admired member of the same community, is to... clone his product (with a new name, BTW) instead of recovering the original and ensuring its continued existence as a viable software package.

Yes.

[kelvinhall05]

Regardless of how bad of an idea this is (seriously, just learn to use qmk lol), I wouldn't work under the leadership of Eric. To put it simple, he is batshit insane. Here's just one of his absolutely wack views: https://web.archive.org/web/20210421193 ... .org/?p=26

So if metaphorically digging up Soarer's grave didn't tarnish his reputation, then this twat running the show certainly will.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond

[ifohancroft]

Regardless of how bad of an idea this is (seriously, just learn to use qmk lol), I wouldn't work under the leadership of Eric. To put it simple, he is batshit insane. Here's just one of his absolutely wack views: https://web.archive.org/web/20210421193 ... .org/?p=26

So if metaphorically digging up Soarer's grave didn't tarnish his reputation, then this twat running the show certainly will.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond

I don't wanna get into this but I feel like this needs to be said:

I may not agree with some of Eric's views (which for all we know, he may not even hold anymore), but you are the one here personally attacking people.

[XMIT]

If we've devolved to ad hominem attacks and name calling, it means that we've run out of real arguments. The prior few posts are squarely in the bottom two tiers of Graham's hierarchy of disagreement.

1200px-The_Debate_Pyramid_v2_Detailed_TT_Norms_Medium_Text_Outlined.svg.png (250.74 KiB) Viewed 33798 times

If something terrible did happen to Soarer, we can honor them by sharing their keyboard converter project and keeping it alive.

Personally I'm with Rayndalf on this one.

[kelvinhall05]

Regardless of how bad of an idea this is (seriously, just learn to use qmk lol), I wouldn't work under the leadership of Eric. To put it simple, he is batshit insane. Here's just one of his absolutely wack views: https://web.archive.org/web/20210421193 ... .org/?p=26

So if metaphorically digging up Soarer's grave didn't tarnish his reputation, then this twat running the show certainly will.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond

I don't wanna get into this but I feel like this needs to be said:

I may not agree with some of Eric's views (which for all we know, he may not even hold anymore), but you are the one here personally attacking people.

I really don't see the problem with just reposting his publicly available views (which blatantly attack and disrespect a large amount of people, and this is just one of the many insane posts going after different marginalized groups). But if you really want something a bit more on topic, here's how he handled an open-source group project: https://invisible-island.net/ncurses/nc ... cense.html

Stay far away from this guy.

[kelvinhall05]

If something terrible did happen to Soarer, we can honor them by sharing their keyboard converter project and keeping it alive.

Going after information sent in private messages and trying to contact his friends/family, getting lawyers involved, etc just so you can reverse-engineer some mediocre converter firmware is not respectful or "keeping the project alive" lmao, especially as we have no way of knowing he died or something. It's very, very possible he intentionally logged out of everything and cut all contact, yet clearly nobody here accepts or respects that.

[depletedvespene]

If something terrible did happen to Soarer, we can honor them by sharing their keyboard converter project and keeping it alive.

Going after information sent in private messages and trying to contact his friends/family, getting lawyers involved, etc just so you can reverse-engineer some mediocre converter firmware is not respectful or "keeping the project alive" lmao, especially as we have no way of knowing he died or something. It's very, very possible he intentionally logged out of everything and cut all contact, yet clearly nobody here accepts or respects that.

It's also "very, very possible" that he died unexpectedly, leaving his work unfinished.

If nothing else, we should at least know for sure what the case actually IS. If it turns out to be that Soarer is alive and well (and posting as "shallot", even) and doesn't want anything to do with his past work or hobbies, well... I think few DT regulars will have a problem honoring his request to not be contacted any further (and if this subject came up again in the future due to some newbie not knowing any better, we'd have it on record to point it out and settling the matter immediately).

This is, of course, entirely separate from the issues of whether esr "should" be handling or not the matter, and who should "inherit" the project, if it came to that, and the always spiny argument of under which open-source license should it be released (or not).

Let us first clear the one doubt lingering on DT for several years now: what DID happen? (and why, if it can be asked)



ALSO: "mediocre firmware"? That's probably why is it still so highly valued, despite its latest build being 7 years old, and the name/handle of its author still spoken of in high regard.

[jmaynard]

so you can reverse-engineer some mediocre converter firmware

Methinks he doth protest too much.

Once we find out what actually happened, then we can figure out the best way to honor his legacy.

But this is entirely orthogonal to Eric's political views, for which many have tried to cancel him and none have succeeded.

[kelvinhall05]

If something terrible did happen to Soarer, we can honor them by sharing their keyboard converter project and keeping it alive.

Going after information sent in private messages and trying to contact his friends/family, getting lawyers involved, etc just so you can reverse-engineer some mediocre converter firmware is not respectful or "keeping the project alive" lmao, especially as we have no way of knowing he died or something. It's very, very possible he intentionally logged out of everything and cut all contact, yet clearly nobody here accepts or respects that.

ALSO: "mediocre firmware"? That's probably why is it still so highly valued, despite its latest build being 7 years old, and the name/handle of its author still spoken of in high regard.

If this thread has taught me anything, a large amount of the praise for Soarer's firmware is people stuck in their ways and who don't want to spend 10 minutes learning how to write a macro in QMK. Soarer's is far from bad, but QMK is much more powerful, open-source, actually maintained in 2021, etc etc etc.

[ifohancroft]

Regardless of how bad of an idea this is (seriously, just learn to use qmk lol), I wouldn't work under the leadership of Eric. To put it simple, he is batshit insane. Here's just one of his absolutely wack views: https://web.archive.org/web/20210421193 ... .org/?p=26

So if metaphorically digging up Soarer's grave didn't tarnish his reputation, then this twat running the show certainly will.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond

I don't wanna get into this but I feel like this needs to be said:

I may not agree with some of Eric's views (which for all we know, he may not even hold anymore), but you are the one here personally attacking people.

I really don't see the problem with just reposting his publicly available views (which blatantly attack and disrespect a large amount of people, and this is just one of the many insane posts going after different marginalized groups). But if you really want something a bit more on topic, here's how he handled an open-source group project: https://invisible-island.net/ncurses/nc ... cense.html

Stay far away from this guy.

I just wrote a reply that somehow didn't get posted.

Anyway, I was saying:

I guess I felt like you weren't being on topic and resorting to personal attacks instead of taking the time to argument yourself on why do you feel like it's not worth it or that it is a bad idea.

Anyway, for me, it's not just about the code (or even primarily). Many of us want to find out what happened and make sure (and hope) that he is ok. Finding a way to reach out is the best way to do that. Reaching out anyway, I don't see harm asking if we can use/modify/release the code. Just modifying and releasing it as it is and hoping it won't bite us in the ass for not doing it legally is a bad idea, but at the same time preserving his work and sharing it with others is a way to honour him. As for why his code and not something else - I feel like Muirium explained it well.

[Myoth]

(IANAL)

hope you acknowledge that not a single soul understood this acronym

[ifohancroft]

in short: piss your pants and get banned from a theater

I fucking love your insults mate! I just noticed the 'get banned from a theater' part.

[kelvinhall05]

so you can reverse-engineer some mediocre converter firmware

Methinks he doth protest too much.

Once we find out what actually happened, then we can figure out the best way to honor his legacy.

But this is entirely orthogonal to Eric's political views, for which many have tried to cancel him and none have succeeded.

You can go ahead and cry "cancel culture" for my disdain of someone's disgustingly racist, misogynist, and homophobic views, and you can dismiss them as "irrelevant political views" (they aren't), but if you do that I strongly suggest you read the ncurses link I posted in a previous reply and see how he can't even handle an open-source project maturely (which is precisely what he wants to do here!)