What stem/spring combos have you tried?

[ripster]

Yeah, tim Tyler did. I'd upload a pic but someone might yell at me.

[7bit]

..
Edit: hmmmm..no way to delete uploaded pics at DT?

I delete it for you if you tell me which lens you used for the rubby red!

[ripster]

I'll upload a pic to Imgur and tell you!

[7bit]

I'll upload a pic to Imgur and tell you!

OK, thanks!

[ripster]

NIkon VR 105mm 2.8!

But it's technique that makes the pic!

[7bit]

You should put this into the wiki:

Keyboard Photography

Thanks!

[ripster]

Brown on left, Red on right!

FIGHT!


Notice I started the coils on top in the same place this time.

[ripster]

You should pit this into the wiki:

Keyboard Photography

Thanks!

I should make a poll what wiki to work on:

Ripster Cleaning Guide
Ripster Switch Fixing Guide
Ripster Keyboard Fonts Wiki
Ripster Keyboard Photography 101
Ripster #1 Poll and Ripster Moderator 101 Guide (oh wait, those never end well)

[7bit]

Just opened 2 switches and found the brown one a bit longer than the red one.

[off]

Notice I started the coils on top in the same place this time.

Notice the difference is still pronounced.

Anyone got a nice sideshot comparing vintage and new mx black stems to back up 7bit's claim that vintage have less rub?

[7bit]

Notice I started the coils on top in the same place this time.

Notice the difference is still pronounced.

Anyone got a nice sideshot comparing vintage and new mx black stems to back up 7bit's claim that vintage have less rub?

You can feel that with your fingernail. Also, you can hear it when pressing down the switch. I did not believe it myself until I got the reds and compared them to unused blacks from the good old times.

[7bit]

Photographed with 75-150 E-series (79,- EUR used), using built-in camera flash :

[ripster]

Nice watermark!

Easy to crop out.

I keep meaning to check a bunch of springs but have vowed to spend less time on switch trivia. Why at least PING could have raised my Filco prices if everyone started RMAing them.

And for SOME odd reason the Chloe and Ripster Cherry MX wiki is closed to edits. Some wiki.

+/- 2/3g is like a First World Problem in terms of practical application.

[off]

Anyone got a nice sideshot comparing vintage and new mx black stems to back up 7bit's claim that vintage have less rub?

You can feel that with your fingernail. Also, you can hear it when pressing down the switch. I did not believe it myself until I got the reds and compared them to unused blacks from the good old times.

So why'd you sell me that crap then??!? (kidding)

Very cool that you can feel that, I can't; for I don't even have any vintage blacks. Vintage black MYs I do have, but.. ugh.
So if you'd be so kind as to eternify (roight) the proof via photographic internet posted evidence; that'd be swell

[ripster]

I smell a trap.

[7bit]

My opinion is that these differences (spring lengths) are manufacturing tolerances.

[7bit]

So if you'd be so kind as to eternify (roight) the proof via photographic internet posted evidence; that'd be swell

I bring some to the keyboard party, then you will feel the difference.

[ripster]

Only if both are NIB or had EXACT same usage pattern would the test be scientific.

[7bit]

I've got like 6 or 7 Cherry black keyboards NIB (some with key caps missing ).

[ripster]

Double blind test!

Or lots of booze.

[itlnstln]

Or lots of booze.

At that point, all switches will feel the same. Unscientific.

Fun*, but unscientific.




*Especially for all the on-lookers at the bar pointing and laughing at you.

[off]

My opinion is that these differences (spring lengths) are manufacturing tolerances.

Then why the differing alloys used?

Fun*, but unscientific.

Good fun!

I bring some to the keyboard party, then you will feel the difference.

Deal! Shame for anyone else browsing this in the future though.

Only if both are NIB or had EXACT same usage pattern would the test be scientific.

You're forgetting manufactured at the same place, roughly at the same time (which would be a challenge with vintage blacks) and stored the same way ever since. And even then..

[7bit]

My opinion is that these differences (spring lengths) are manufacturing tolerances.

Then why the differing alloys used?

Fun*, but unscientific.

Good fun!

I bring some to the keyboard party, then you will feel the difference.

Deal! Shame for anyone else browsing this in the future though.

Only if both are NIB or had EXACT same usage pattern would the test be scientific.

You're forgetting manufactured at the same place, roughly at the same time (which would be a challenge with vintage blacks) and stored the same way ever since. And even then..

This is nonsense, since the surface is rough on the new ones and smooth on the old ones. Once you feel them you know the difference.

[Limmy]

The description of red slider does not coincide with what I observed. After about 2mm, the metal leaf no longer touches the slider. However, the way metal leaf is touching the red slider only helps the switch go down in contrast to other switches with bumps.


As for the lube business, it certainly feels better with lubricant on the slider channels.(I used lubricants that felt slippery to touch such as Krytox GPL100 or GPL105) You can feel friction between the slider and the channels if you push large key without stabilizers (such as capslock or tab) on the edges. I even recorded the sound of the scratchiness. See here for the MP3 files ( http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/4009121 )

Forgot to respond to you;
So O vs X, which means which? X meaning simply 'with' and O 'without'?
Hm, it seems it is logical for you to use X for 'without' and O for 'with' apparently... (after listening to the samples)
Care to elaborate?
For me it is more logical the other way around, seeing how on for instance a form you could have empty boxes 'O's, and checked boxes 'X's after crossing the boxes.
Also a tip, personally I quite dislike empty ID3-tags, yours have only the year (2012, ok) and the genre (blues, mkay) filled in; much prefer no tags at all if they're nonsense anyhow (since without tags my player shows me the filenames, and with tags, even when empty, it'll show that info).

Another thing, the slow tab before lube file, is that actually the way it sounded and did you tap it the same way with the same rhythm&force as the lubed one? It sounds like it clipped during encoding or got smacked hard (at 3seconds).
Re: stickers; these I'm hearing are the infamous red stickers I take it (or some other derivative, like a diy one)?

1. O vs X in MP3 files.

Yes, O means with and X means without. OX classification is natural for a Korean, but I just realized it may not be for others.

I created files for each combination so that you could see the effect by arranging the files in a certain way. For instance, if you want to see the effect of sticker mod, you could arrange the files in the following way and hear the differences in all possibile combinations of mod I tried.

fast - lube o, sticker o, o-ring o
fast - lube o, sticker x, o-ring o
fast - lube o, sticker o, o-ring x
fast - lube o, sticker x, o-ring x
fast - lube x, sticker o, o-ring o
fast - lube x, sticker x, o-ring o
fast - lube x, sticker o, o-ring x
fast - lube x, sticker x, o-ring x
slow - lube o, sticker o, o-ring o
slow - lube o, sticker x, o-ring o
slow - lube o, sticker o, o-ring x
slow - lube o, sticker x, o-ring x
slow - lube x, sticker o, o-ring o
slow - lube x, sticker x, o-ring o
slow - lube x, sticker o, o-ring x
slow - lube x, sticker x, o-ring x

You could order it in a similar way to see the sound effect of the lube mod.



2. Tab key

I tried to depress the key with similar force before and after the lube. Due to the friction between the sliders, the sliding didn't happen with uniform speed which I tried to achieve at the time of the testing. About the pop sound at 3 second mark in "tab depressed slowly - 1. before lube.mp3" file, it is sound of slider bottoming out. Without lube the switch bottomed out hard sometimes because of sudden movements. (if you try to slide something on a surface with large enough friction the sliding would happen with jerking motion)


3. Stickers

I used 3M filament tape(897) as a substitute for the sticker specifically designed for the purpose.

[Limmy]

Here is my experience on red sliders:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?2321 ... post554440
The red sliders are grainier than the other sliders I have. Of course, ripster always say things he doesn't understand are McRip Effect.
See here:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?2936 ... -Frictiony

I have already done the counting of active coils of red, blue, browns. So far, observations from the members here are more or less in line with what I find. Here is my observations on the difference in springs:
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?2321 ... post563186
Again, ripster does not understand the difference and say they are McRip effect. He even thought I was joking. LoL! I tried to update the GH wiki with what I find and ripster becomes all defensive and reverts the edit.(He likes to revert other people's contribution. I saw several instances of such cases.) During the process he nukes the wiki and blames it all on me. He even called me names for which I didn't get proper apology(it seems he had once said sorry). Since then he mentions my screen name here and there, implying I am crazy and I don't appreciate that.

Identical is a strong word, ripster. And distinguishing two seemingly identical things requires some understanding of the matter. No one said Hooke's law doesn't apply in custom springs. Obviously, ripster didn't correctly understand the theory he loves.

[ripster]

OK, I got an idea. How about we agree that IF there are differences they are in the 2 to 3g range?

And therefore well within McRip Effect territory?

April 1 Limmy, an American thing.

How about We Smokeum Peace Pipe?

Another way of saying that "identical" is still open to debate!

[itlnstln]

What nobody's done yet that would be interesting to see is take pics of 10 blue, 10 red and 10 brown springs, and count the coils and average them out. Showing one sample of each here and there only suggests manufacturing variance.

If you consistently show that one always has 12.5 coils and another always has 13.5, now you have some evidence of Cherry making springs that close to each other on purpose. Otherwise, you are just making limited data fit your perception. Perception might make a good starting point, evidence and testing make facts. You've done the first, now do the second. Consistently show blues have more coils and you'll have something. So far, I'm not sold.

This is DT, not GH.

[ripster]

And then you have to prove that you counted coils the right way.

I get a Helix Headache.

[Soarer]

Otherwise, you are just making limited data fit your perception. Perception might make a good starting point, evidence and testing make facts.

Far better to actually measure the force at a few compressions - just as limmy and I have started to do. Counting coils means nothing if there's a variance in the wire thickness or something. So ideally, more force measurements would be good, but I only have one board with blues - it would be better for more people to measure forces on just a few springs than for me to measure a lot of my springs.

BTW, the starting point for me was overlaying the Cherry force graphs and noticing the different slopes (between 2.5mm and 3.5mm, where all switches should be alike). Nothing to do with perception. It would appear that Cherry intended the springs to be slightly different for blues/browns/reds - even if the difference seems trivial to us. And even if that is correct, it's hard to prove because manufacturing tolerances could well give us some brown springs that are stronger than some blue springs.

So sure, it hardly matters to most people, but I'm still curious to find out whether they are meant to be different.

[ripster]

I lost interest in defending my one line once the Wikis got locked down at Fort iMav.