Kinesis Advantage (dvorak) for programming and vim

[Zylinski]

Hi, I'm new here! Fabulous forum!


Here's my current keyboard: http://files.zylinski.se/DSC_0159.JPG
It's my non-mechanical Logitech Ultra X! It's like nine years old and has served me well.


I switched to the programming friendly Swedish Dvorak layout called Svorak A5 last week (this took like a hour to type).
Here's how it looks:



Also, I have swapped Caps Lock and Escape and set the unused <>|-key (right of shift) to Backspace.




To increase ergonomics further, I'm thinking of buying a Kinesis Advantage contoured keyboard (above) and use the Svorak A5 layout with it. I'm doing loads of C++-programming and like to use keyboard-heavy editors like vim.

Do you think that I'll get along with the Kinesis? I've also considered a Maltron 3D, but a bit too expensive.


Love from Sweden,
Karl Zylinski

[hoggy]

Welcome to deskthority!

The Advantage is a great keyboard, get one. You should be able to get one with the option of returning it within a month just in case you don't get on with it - and it might take a few days to a couple of weeks to get to used it. I've got a few ergonomic boards, but spend most of my time typing on the advantage.

How did you remap to Svorak A5? You shouldn't have any problems with the advantage if you remapped the keys in software. You could remap using the keyboard alone, but I think you'll be stuck when it comes to remapping the symbols onto different keys. Other than that, remapping the keys is a doddle. I use mine with dvorak with the capslock mapped to backspace.

[fossala]

The downside of the kinesis is where it places you [{}] keys, not good for programming. But as hoggy said it is reprogrammable.

[bjarven]

Hi Karl!

I think we're looking for pretty much the same in a keyboard... I too code mostly in vim and need to type in swedish now and then. I tried some dvorak variants a year ago but settled for colemak with some small changes instead, (caps lock to esc is a necessity! ) that was half a year ago and now I type faster in colemak than i did in qwerty. How come you decided on svorak a5? Don't think I've seen that version before. Only downside with colemak i think is that åäö is on a second layer. But that's no big problem if you move them to altgr + a, s, and o. Depends on the ratio of coding to swedish typing i guess.

I'm also thinking about getting a kinesis advantage, but atm I'm waiting for the ergodox instead. Should perhaps get a kinesis to use in the waiting time... Oh yeah and that ultra x was a favourite of mine as well, used one for over five years i think, before I started trying out different layouts. Now I use a ms natural 4000, but that should give way to something else soon...

[Findecanor]

If the {[]} symbols are supposed to be accessed through the use of Alt Gr... well, I find that the default location of the Alt Gr key is hard to reach on the Kinesis. Maybe if you could remap that key to somewhere else.

[graham]

For the record (programmer, U.S. Dvorak on Kinesis) the placement of the {[]} keys take a good bit of time to get used to, but I've managed to do it. After changing to Dvorak though, the {[]} keys moved to where the += and _- keys are, and I quite like the swap. Recommend it.

Additionally, if you're going to be using vim - I added an arcade button to the palm-wrest which acts as escape. See this page on all sorts of additional keys you can add to your keyboard simply: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=26579.0 (At the end of the first post, you'll find the one about the arcade button.

[kps]

I use the left inner thumb key for Escape, which makes it easy to reach and also pleasingly symmetrical with Enter — one to terminate command arguments and one to terminate lines.

I never had trouble with the placement of []; they're in the home columns rather than requiring a pinky stretch.

On a QWERTY layout, swapping the up and down arrows so that they end up in the J and K columns also makes sense for a vi user.

[Zylinski]

How did you remap to Svorak A5? You shouldn't have any problems with the advantage if you remapped the keys in software.

I remapped on my Windows and Mac-machines using downloadable software layouts from http://aoeu.info/s/dvorak/svorak (site in Swedish).

I tried some dvorak variants a year ago but settled for colemak with some small changes instead, (caps lock to esc is a necessity! ) that was half a year ago and now I type faster in colemak than i did in qwerty. How come you decided on svorak a5?

I just wanted to try a new layout. Svorak is simply a swedish version of dvorak, the a5-variant is for programmers. I haven't really settled though, I'm actually starting to consider colemak after reading this: http://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=869 That layout looks awesome...

I added an arcade button to the palm-wrest which acts as escape. See this page on all sorts of additional keys you can add to your keyboard simply: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=26579.0 (At the end of the first post, you'll find the one about the arcade button.

Lookin cool! Think I'll start out with an unmodified kinesis before I pull the dremel out though.


Anyway, I'll probably buy a kinesis as soon as I can. I'm a poor student though!

[Zylinski]

Anyone got advice on how to modify/create a colemak layout (software) to be like this one? http://forum.colemak.com/viewtopic.php?id=869

I'd prefer not to do the keybindings in registry, not even sure I can move the special-symbols with registry changes. How do you create a new windows-layout that can be installed?

*edit: nevermind, found this excellent tool: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964665.aspx Programmer-friendly-colemak-time!

[Zylinski]

Hi again!

I worked through the night with the buggy MS keyboard layout creator, realizing that dead keys are quite complicated. Here's the result:


It's made after the colemak I linked in the previous post. The reason I have loads of unused keys is to make it similar to the layout I will use on the kinesis once I got enough money to buy one. The special chars are accessed with alt gr, that's why I have two of them on the home row.

I couldn't remap the special keys (alt gr, caps lock etc, backspace) in the layout creator and thus had to do a registry/sharpkeys remap of them.

[fossala]

I wouldn't have "core" punctuation on the home row unless you where a programmer. In that case I would move the brackets to the home row.

[Zylinski]

Yeah, I "stole" the special chars from the guy on the link above, I'm thinking of ways to modify it to make it more useful to me as a C++ programmer. Will try to figure out which special chars are used most in my C++ code and have those on the homerow

[sordna]

I program using vim on an Advantage LF... the Advantage LF that was dremeled in that article
For me the End key is remapped to escape. The [] keys I left where they are, they were not that hard to get used to, but you can move them to =- or Hope/PgUp or some other location.

graham, can you point me to pics of your arcade button mod? I want to see what you did, you are the first person I know that has done my palm button mod, cool!

[uberben]

The one thing that I found the most useful for Dvorak + Kinesis + Vim is remapping down/up to the left hand arrow keys so they are directly below j/k. There are so many times I accidentally try j/k in a program that doesn't accept it, so then I can just move my fingers down a row and get the same effect.

I have remapped caps to ctrl and in vim have ctrl+c mapped to esc. They already do almost the same thing, so muscle memory isn't much of a problem when I'm not using my own config. I'm also planning to replace the rubber keys with proper cherries, so I might end up using esc again. We shall see.

graham: I'm also curious to see your mod. I'm strongly considering doing it too. sordna: still loving it?