How to identify the switch type used by my laptops keyboard?

[cheater]

Hi guys,
encouraged by the nice tactile feel of my laptop's keyboard, I got another chiclet keyboard, the Perixx 804. It's the same as the Cherry KW 6000, and uses Cherry SX scissor switches.

However, the feel is not as good as on my keyboard. Upon closer inspection, I have noticed that the switches are very different. I haven't been able to pull off a key yet (a bit scared to break either of the keyboards, because that'll be expensive if I do it wrong ) but I pulled them up and looked at the "hinge" part that I uncovered and they were different.

How do I identify what keyboard, and what switch type, is being used? There can't be so many different manufacturers of scissor switches either..

The laptop is a HP Pavilion dv6. The actual model number is dv6-6b55eg for the specific one I have.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[rodtang]

NMB, ALPS and Chicony are the ones that I know of (they made/make the Thinkpad keyboards). There are some guides on how to identify the ones in the Thinkpads, that might be a place to start)

[Ascaii]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Keyboard-fo ... 27c7bf3359

Buy one for 13$, chop it up, then you have your answer

[cheater]

Thanks rodtang and ascaii!

NMB, ALPS and Chicony are the ones that I know of (they made/make the Thinkpad keyboards). There are some guides on how to identify the ones in the Thinkpads, that might be a place to start)

Thanks. I searched around. Here's an image I have found:


I was pretty sure it was neither of those, because I have been using the T430 for a longer period of time, and tried one of the new chiclet ones, and they weren't anywhere near as good as the keyboard on the HP! Surprise! They had a much longer, and mushier throw.

I have finally braved it and ripped off the numlock key on my laptop. Phew, actually there's nothing to be afraid of, just pull up the bottom edge of the keycap until the scissor attached at the top of the keycap comes out of the brace at the underside of the keycap.

Did the same to the tilde on the Perixx. The Cherry SX switches are the other way around. You can actually notice that if you look at the keyboard from the side: the keycaps are attached at the bottom edge, and are supported by the dome, therefore they tilt towards the bottom edge ("forward" or "toward the typist"). Funnily enough the Perixx (and so the Cherry KW 6000) uses two different switch types, black and white. There doesn't seem to be noticeable difference between them, though.

Here are both keyboards side by side: http://imgur.com/a/emP9B#0 http://imgur.com/a/emP9B#1

HP/Darfon mystery switch: http://imgur.com/a/emP9B#2

Cherry SX switch: http://imgur.com/a/emP9B#3

I had to take like 10 each of those photos because the camera was too shaky. Selected the best ones.

Inspecting visually, the hp switch is different from either of the ones in the Thinkpad guide (so it might not be alps, nmb, or chicony) and the cherry sx that I have here. I attribute the better feel to the distortion dome's higher stiffness. It seems the plastic is stiffer (it's not just as soft as the silicone rubber used in the Cherry) and the dome seems to be narrower at the base (again making it stiffer).

I have been searching around this morning and found out that the keyboard is provided to Apple by a company called Flextronics. They make whitelabel everything: from lab equipment to washing machines, and yes, keyboards.

"A Day in the Life of Flextronics": http://vimeo.com/45133693

I've found this out by going to the hp support site, they have support manuals which list all replacement parts for a specific laptop model and sub-model. Then I googled the replacement part number and searched for probably half an hour until I stumbled upon these:

http://imgur.com/a/zNtnP#0

The second and third shot are of the dv7 6000 series keyboard. The dv7 6000 seems to be a slightly updated version of my laptop which is dv6 6000 series.

The pics mention "Flextronics" and "Darfon". The keyboard is probably sourced from Darfon, and Darfon sources their switches yet somewhere else. Luckily enough they're a small company and can be contacted directly! They even have a guy who specializes in laptop keyboards. Looking good.

http://www.darfon.com/English/hid_ContactWindow.asp

Note the "mystery switch" has tiny inscriptions on the plastic parts. I can't make them out though.

BTW, if you look at the side-by-side action shot of the two keyboards, you'll notice that the key caps are much nicer quality. They are smoother, yet still nicely porous, very nice to the touch. The Perixx/Cherry feels OK on its own, yet cheap by comparison.

Not related at all, but I stumbled upon this funny tidbit during my searches today: http://technology.automated.it/2012/10/ ... er-cutter/ - moss-covered wooden keyboard. Sheesh!

[cheater]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Keyboard-fo ... 27c7bf3359

Buy one for 13$, chop it up, then you have your answer

Thanks for making the search BTW, it's for an older version of the Pavilion DV6.. it's a different KB. It's so confusing, HP reuses the same model name AND number for several years. And each model generation has like 100 submodels! They do a lot of custom building.

[cheater]

I googled around for the darfon product number, and ended up at http://www.keystore.hk and then found my laptop's exact keyboard there:

http://www.keystore.hk/plus/view.php?aid=16497

Browsing from that (you can go next/previous in their catalog) I found:
1. keystore.hk posts the same item under several names in a row to attract googlers with SEM
2. they have a tenkeyless version of the same keyboard, for the DV4 3000 etc, which is a smaller-screen version of my laptop
3. that keyboard is also known as the "Chicony MP-10N33K06886 KR Laptop Keyboard (Black)(Frame)"

The page: http://www.keystore.hk/plus/view.php?aid=16495 shows three keycaps taken off to reveal the switch. It looks mostly the same, with minute differences, but I attribute those to the pixelization (tiny image resolution).

So in fact I might be looking for a Chicony switch.

[RC-1140]

I admit, at first I was very sceptic, whether a scissor switch fan like you would fit into this community, but the way you do research on your own instead of just asking for information makes me confident that you are an interesting addition to this community!

I used to hate the keyboard in my notebooks (both Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebooks [C1110D, and afterwards a S6410]), so I really assumed that I would never really accept typing on a low profile rubber dome based switch (as far as I can see they don't really use scissor switches), but the ThinkPad T410 I use now (as my old notebook is broken) has some switches I can tolerate typing on. Also I happen to like the Trackpin.

So keep up the good work!

[cheater]

Haha, thanks. That's really great.

Bear in mind, I'm not scoffing on mechanic keyboards, I'm in fact a great fan of them as well. I still use a full-size keyboard every now and then, but this is to check out this weird world of flat keyboards I don't really know yet. In fact thinking of getting a Tipro as an alternative. I very much prefer full-size keyboards (akimbo) when I'm in the office, but I've been doing a lot of work-from-home recently, so the aim of this project is to maximize productivity and comfort when I'm in my lounge chair

[cheater]

BTW, here's an observation from using the Perixx / Cherry..

on a full-size (well, LP-family keycap) keyboard I can easily use the Control key with the palm.

However, on the Perixx, there are several things that work against this:

1) the rows are closer together.. maybe 10% closer. Not even noticeable at first, but it makes a tiny difference
2) the bottom row in my Logitech k200 is higher - maybe by 10-20% than the rest of the keyboard. And it's a little bit higher.
3) the Perixx/Cherry keys are really, really flat. That wasn't so noticeable on the Logitech k400, which was just a really really low profile keyboard with normal distortion domes. However here it's noticeable. On taller keys the palm sort of wraps around the key, it's difficult to explain. The arch of the palm, starting at the base where it joins the wrist and ending at the tips of your fingers, surrounds the keys and on e.g. the k200 the ctrl key is in just the right position for me to press it with my pinky's metacarpal bone, the inside of my knuckle. This isn't the case with the Perixx/Cherry. Which means I'll have to perform the experiment I came up with here:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/lp- ... tml#p86218

which is to glue a standard keycap onto the ctrl key and see what happens.

I need to somehow figure out how to do it so that it's sturdy, and yet non-permanent.

[cheater]

I used to hate the keyboard in my notebooks (both Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebooks [C1110D, and afterwards a S6410]), so I really assumed that I would never really accept typing on a low profile rubber dome based switch (as far as I can see they don't really use scissor switches), but the ThinkPad T410 I use now (as my old notebook is broken) has some switches I can tolerate typing on.

Oh yeah, most laptop and flat keyboards really suck very much. I hate them as well. That's why it was so surprising to me to realize that it might be time to go out and try one. Really mindblowing! But you only live once, right? They say college is time for experimenting.. OK, I'm not in college, but you're as young as you feel as they say

[cheater]

BTW, here's an observation from using the Perixx / Cherry..

on a full-size (well, LP-family keycap) keyboard I can easily use the Control key with the palm.

However, on the Perixx, there are several things that work against this:

1) the rows are closer together.. maybe 10% closer. Not even noticeable at first, but it makes a tiny difference
2) the bottom row in my Logitech k200 is higher - maybe by 10-20% than the rest of the keyboard. And it's a little bit higher.
3) the Perixx/Cherry keys are really, really flat. That wasn't so noticeable on the Logitech k400, which was just a really really low profile keyboard with normal distortion domes. However here it's noticeable. On taller keys the palm sort of wraps around the key, it's difficult to explain. The arch of the palm, starting at the base where it joins the wrist and ending at the tips of your fingers, surrounds the keys and on e.g. the k200 the ctrl key is in just the right position for me to press it with my pinky's metacarpal bone, the inside of my knuckle. This isn't the case with the Perixx/Cherry. Which means I'll have to perform the experiment I came up with here:

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/lp- ... tml#p86218

which is to glue a standard keycap onto the ctrl key and see what happens.

I need to somehow figure out how to do it so that it's sturdy, and yet non-permanent.

I was just thinking that one improvement would be if the spacebar row was just lower than it is right now. So for example the distance of 1 row lower. And another improvement would be for the keyboard to have that row made out of "full" size switches. On another post I was talking about how adding another row of keys below the spacebar row could be pretty cool. Put those three together.. and you get an idea for a custom keyboard: basically, take a typical mechanical keyboard, but only leave the spacebar row of it. Offset its keys so that their base is lower than the base of the chiclet keyboard by maybe 50%. Finally make a metal plate which connects the mechanical keys and the chiclet keyboard.. Sounds like a project alright! I wonder if this could be made to work wirelessly? Via bluetooth perhaps? And could I make it work off the same battery as the chiclet keyboard? Sounds difficult at least.

One good bit about this idea is that the keyboard is leant back, which is the natural way for your hands to be. Learnt this by using the ms 4000, and never forgot how great it felt. But i'm not sure how this fits in with my keyboard-in-lap scheme because it could end up straining my shoulders, which have to carry the weight of my forearms if those aren't resting on the lap.