Older Cherry MX datasheets, anyone?

Daniel Beardsmore · 11 Jan 2013, 23:04

In Cherry MX part numbers, of the form MX1A-_X__, X is normally "1", which means "Std straight for cylin & std keycaps" or "Standard, straight for 8 mm cap" depending on the datasheet.

We know that there are at least two other stem configurations — MX Orange has an unequal cross (horizontal arms are much thinner) and there are both clicky and linear variants for taking Alps keycaps.

One might imagine that the codes would be like:

MX Blue — MX1A-E1__
MX Blue (Alps) — MX1A-E2__ or MX1A-E3__

The colours are the same (blue stem, white click collar), but MX1A-E2NN/NW/E3NN/NW do not exist.

Anyone got a Cherry dogalogue old enough to still have these parts? I don't even know if they were ever listed publicly at all. The MX Orange was used in at least one keyboard — http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/ncrf020.htm — but Mousefan never posted a contact link and seems to be unreachable.

I have no idea how people even got hold of the Alps-style ones, as I've never seen them in an actual keyboard.

webwit · 11 Jan 2013, 23:13

Some Alps ones in here if I remember correctly:
http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... t4618.html

Daniel Beardsmore · 11 Jan 2013, 23:28

No, they're Cherry's (what I call) "bar mount", which is the cross stem with sides sliced off à la Black Knight. Cherry tended to lop off the arms a lot back in those days.

That's an old catalogue — I imagine it predates Alps CM. From the part numbers, I would deduce that it's an M6 switch that came before the M7. However, I can't find any M7 datasheet that would confirm their M7_ part numbers, nor any suggestion that an M6 ever existed.

Soarer · 11 Jan 2013, 23:36

The 1982 catalogue gives the part numbers for M7/8/9. No mention of M6 there either.

The 'old' (no colour) MX catalogue has no date on it, and no mention of other mount styles.

Daniel Beardsmore · 12 Jan 2013, 00:28

Yeah, M7 has M7 part numbers. M6, M7, M9 … so many switches, so little time.

But still nothing on the mysterious MX variants.

IvanIvanovich · 12 Jan 2013, 17:30

I suspect the orange ones never had a proper part, as they seem to have been a custom order switch for NCR. The Alps mount could very well be the same situation. From what I understand Cherry will make custom switch if order them in the hundreds of thousands. I wouldn't mind knowing what boards used those either. I also have never seen anything with them.

Soarer · 12 Jan 2013, 19:11

Is it possible that all these oddballs pre-date the current part number scheme for MX switches? I'm wondering that because there isn't a code for 'Special' for the mount, yet there is for the contact material and configuration.

Daniel Beardsmore · 12 Jan 2013, 23:23

Considering that the part number scheme seems to go back to before there were even switch family names (e.g. the are switches with M6 part numbers but no apparent family called "M6"), I doubt very much that MX switches started out with some other numbering scheme.

Make of this what you will, but Mousefan's switch gallery shows the MX Orange next to an M8-derived switch with what appears to be the same mount (as opposed to the truncated MX mount):

http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/jiku.htm

It's not the same as any M8 switch in any Cherry catalogue, but it's clearly M8-derived, or a forerunner of the M8.

Soarer · 13 Jan 2013, 00:10

What do you mean? I can't make out any patterns in the M7 numbering scheme in 1982; it seems to be fairly arbitrary, apart from the suffix '-0100' being perhaps the 'base' version. Certainly M71-0100 is not in the same form as MX1A-11NN.

Daniel Beardsmore · 13 Jan 2013, 00:24

The 1982 catalogue shows different numbering schemes each for M7, M8 and M9, that follow the same general idea, but are not compatible. MX numbers seem to be based mostly on the M9 numbering scheme. I doubt that MX started out with different codes, because that would require changing all the part numbers, which would be insane.

Soarer · 13 Jan 2013, 01:10

Yeah, maybe it would. But there's a bunch of mystery mounts (and the vintage MX white?) that we don't know the codes for. I'm just thinking that perhaps they never had codes in the MX9A-99AA form - maybe they had special codes by adding another suffix or something. If all the unknown types were from the early days of MX, maybe they just didn't last long enough to get a standard code. I'm just not willling to presume that it was sane

Daniel Beardsmore · 13 Jan 2013, 01:12

Well, that's why I wanted an older catalogue .................

Soarer · 13 Jan 2013, 01:27

Maybe they weren't ever in any catalogue! You'll need all the older catalogues.............

graboy · 16 Jan 2013, 01:26

Daniel Beardsmore wrote:From the part numbers, I would deduce that it's an M6 switch that came before the M7. However, I can't find any M7 datasheet that would confirm their M7_ part numbers, nor any suggestion that an M6 ever existed.

Cherry M61, M62, pages 36-38, with illustration. (This is webwit's link that he posted earlier, btw)

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... t4618.html

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jan 2013, 22:13

Yes I know they have M6* part numbers. However, Cherry didn't brand the switch as "M6" in that catalogue. M7 may be the first range where Cherry officially used the part numbers as a product range description. I did read that the "M" means "Microswitch" (actual microswitches—their "subminiature switches"—have normal E* numbers like their other switches), but Cherry appear to have abandoned that notion since: the "MX" is not "Microswitch Family X"; rather, "MX" is the family code. MY is not a microswitch anyway.

graboy · 16 Jan 2013, 22:45

Okay, cool, thanks for the clarification. Daniel, have you ever asked Cherry directly about any of this? It seems that you are often emailing companies about their products to get more detailed information, I'm curious to hear what kind of communication you have had with Cherry (if any).

Daniel Beardsmore · 16 Jan 2013, 23:01

I've corresponded with a guy at Cherry — seems they don't have much information left now. The guy had never heard of the Alps mount variant, nor the weirdo orange switches. We did clear up the confusion surrounding the pages here showing M8 and MX caps.

I do need to write up some pages on some of what I've figured out so far, but I'm Mr Alps, not Mr Cherry. The Cherry fans here should be doing Cherry, really. I've got enough to be going on with Alps, Futaba, SMK etc. I desperately want to contact Focus! Turns out some of their boards (FK-8000 and FK-9000) had alternate action (latching lock) switches, and on Trent's Alps clone FK-9000, it's a Futaba switch!

It all comes down to just getting more people here to take and post photos. I've messaged Trent, nothing. No response to this post asking for a photo of the old Futaba alternate action switch: http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8 ... tml#p90808

Plus some companies just aren't responding. Focus, I can't reach due to perpetually over-quota mailbox. Chicony (the other company to sell Monterey switches) have no contact e-mail addresses.

So far, no response from SMK Europe (who the SMK guy forwarded my query to), Alps, Futaba Europe, NMB, Electronic Surplus (I want to use their vintage SMK photos), MEI (but the wrong MEI I think), or Datalux. Devlin—who resell Datalux keyboards—have passed on my query to Datalux; nothing yet. No reply from Xiang Min to my query about buying some sample switches. No reply from the Guitar Hero Repairs guy about his switches either, the new mystery Alps switch I posted.

Also, no reply from Sandy55, BeebMaster, Kaineko2, or the Qwerter's clinic guy. There's no contact e-mail for Mousefan.

If I do get my free samples from Taiwan Tai-Hao, I will need to think of a present to send Felly Du, as he's been so patient with me.

For the most part, it's a dead loss both with forum members, people outside forums, and most companies.

Ascaii · 17 Jan 2013, 00:03

That is people in general. Oh well...do you have the different kpt variants covered yet? I stumbled on a NIB vivanco unit with pkts.

Daniel Beardsmore · 17 Jan 2013, 09:25

I've looked at them.

Felly at Taiwan Tai-Hao tells me that they never made "JL" branded switches, but unbranded Aruz switches may be theirs.

This cloning of clones adds to my suspicion that only blue KPT switches are from Keypot, and the yellow ones are someone else's, especially as there are TEC-branded ones. I can't ask Keypot though, as they're no longer around.

Alps.tw figured they were from 1984, but this appears to be a misunderstanding of a German regulation label on one of the keyboards.

FCC registration date shows as 1991.

However, the SIIG MiniTouch was also registered with the FCC in 1991, yet the production period was January 2002 to January 2003. That's one heck of a necro for an old board, if that's what SIIG did: re-use an old Monterey board from 1991. Sadly Monterey Europe don't really have much idea now. I have another angle of attack for Monterey Taiwan, as I've not yet given up on the Monterey switch, and maybe they know what keyboard this was originally.