RAMA x Machine M10-A Macropad

[Rama]

Hi all, this is my first post on Deskthority! I finally have mustered the courage to make my first post on here as I've heard you guys are a little more diehard which is awesome!

A little background to introduce myself:
I am an Industrial Designer based in Melbourne, Australia and I have a deep interest in Mechanical Keyboards - I could go really in-depth with it, but I basically just love things that are satisfying to click and press.

A few months ago I ran my first GroupBuy on GH selling my machined aluminium wave keycaps. The whole idea of GroupBuys really intrigued me as it was a really accessible avenue for me to actually have things produced at quantity and have the funding to do so. So that was really cool Awesome seeing people get it and use it out in the wild too!

So after doing that, I thought I'd try my shot at making my own keyboard! So I decided to start small and create a little programmable macropad. Well actually, someone came to me to make it into a reality, as it originally started off as a sort of advertising piece for my keycaps (image below):



So that someone is Machine Industries (he goes by 27percent on the boards, not sure if he is on Deskthority) and designed the PCB and is working on a graphical keyboard programmer (see below)

The M10-A will also have a mass storage bootloader so that programming it will be as simple as dragging and dropping the file!

The whole unit is milled out of Aluminium:


And supports LED Lighting:


You will also be able to select your own switches when released:


Then of course after all the renders and CAD was completed, I had a prototype made! Milled from aluminium then coated with paint (this thing really is hefty at over half a kilo!)





And here is a quick video of the prototype!

The whole project will be open sourced so you can make one yourself and/or utilize the software for your own keyboard etc!

Anyways that's all, I thought a few of you may be interested to see what I've been working on, so here it is!
If you want to read more about the project and see more images you can do so through this link:
http://rama.works/#/m10-a/

I'm hoping to release the product early next month, just sorting out everything that will be included with the device and sorting out the packaging etc

Thanks for reading!

[el_mechacontext]

Hi! I'm brand new here myself, so just getting used to it.

If I may ask, how heavy is your macropad with switches? I couldn't find that info anywhere.

[adhoc]

Hi! I'm brand new here myself, so just getting used to it.

If I may ask, how heavy is your macropad with switches? I couldn't find that info anywhere.

He said about half a kilo.

The design looks very uncomfortable to use. If you had it lying down on a flat surface and you had to access it by supporting your wrist on the desk, the angle looks very uncomfortable. You just kept pressing it with one finger, so it isn't as obvious, but I don't think that's the intended way of using it, or?

[Rama]

Hi! I'm brand new here myself, so just getting used to it.

If I may ask, how heavy is your macropad with switches? I couldn't find that info anywhere.

Hi hi! Yeah as adhoc mentioned it's about half a kilogram, so pretty hefty! I should really get around to taking an accurate measurement, I will do that tomorrow

The design looks very uncomfortable to use. If you had it lying down on a flat surface and you had to access it by supporting your wrist on the desk, the angle looks very uncomfortable. You just kept pressing it with one finger, so it isn't as obvious, but I don't think that's the intended way of using it, or?

It's really up to the person, but i can tell you that holding it in your hands it's definitely comfortable, but if you're talking about it laying on a desk? It's actually surprisingly ergonomic as your hand lays on it (as if it where an oversized mouse) so it's not too bad - I will take a video tomorrow to demonstrate this and its use on a desk It's definitely not for everyone, ergonomics was not a focus with this project, just wanted to create something retro and monolithic!

[t!ng]

Reminds me of TF2-Style:


I really like it!

[need]

The logo reminds me of this:

[Rama]

Reminds me of TF2-Style:


I really like it!

Haha oh wow yeah, that one to the right for sure almost the same colors too! It's actually inspired from an early Apple Macintosh keyboard, the m0110 I believe

The logo reminds me of this:

Totally looks alike haha, I need to forward this to my project partner (the M is his logo) Look's like the new Warner Brothers logo too

[Chyros]

It really looks like the numpad that came with the M0110, I think .

[Rama]

It really looks like the numpad that came with the M0110, I think .

Yeah dude, it was inspired around the M0110 and it's numpad, kind of a cross of the two in a way then with my own styling twists

[Chyros]

It really looks like the numpad that came with the M0110, I think .

Yeah dude, it was inspired around the M0110 and it's numpad, kind of a cross of the two in a way then with my own styling twists

Nice, I think it looks pretty cool actually .

[romevi]

Hey there, how's progress on this?!

[Rama]

Nice, I think it looks pretty cool actually .

Ahh thanks heaps dude!!

Hey there, how's progress on this?!

Romevi! A familiar face!

Progress is going well! The latest revision of the PCB is being manufactured for testing (the first had issues with the LEDs), so I'm just waiting on that
I have also ordered another prototype enclosure in Space Grey - lightly beadblasted - Aluminium, so I'm pretty stoked to be receiving that

[Rama]

The design looks very uncomfortable to use. If you had it lying down on a flat surface and you had to access it by supporting your wrist on the desk, the angle looks very uncomfortable. You just kept pressing it with one finger, so it isn't as obvious, but I don't think that's the intended way of using it, or?

I got around to taking that video, here is it being used on a desk

Hi! I'm brand new here myself, so just getting used to it.

If I may ask, how heavy is your macropad with switches? I couldn't find that info anywhere.

Hey mate, just chucked it on the scales, got a reading of 0.401kg Cheers

[smart3877]

macro pad interested. it's good news.

looked the posts. I wonder how the macro detail working

punctuation , formatting , meta , Navigation , Numrow .............other


Add questions.

m10-a How much are the expected price?

Can I purchase the SA keycaps together?

Waitting for good news.

[Rama]

macro pad interested. it's good news.

looked the posts. I wonder how the macro detail working

punctuation , formatting , meta , Navigation , Numrow .............other


Add questions.

m10-a How much are the expected price?

Can I purchase the SA keycaps together?

Waitting for good news.

Hey mate, thanks for showing interest!

So with the configurator everything is organised into various sections so you can easily configure it to your liking or mix and match

Expected price is going to be $120USD with full aluminium enclosure, your choice of switches, cable and hopefully a few more things

I'm looking into my options with including keycaps currently I contacted Signature Plastics for a set of 10 SA keycaps like the ones in the photo but there price was pretty high + a huge lead time unfortunately

Cheers mate, hope that answered your question!

[adhoc]

The design looks very uncomfortable to use. If you had it lying down on a flat surface and you had to access it by supporting your wrist on the desk, the angle looks very uncomfortable. You just kept pressing it with one finger, so it isn't as obvious, but I don't think that's the intended way of using it, or?

I got around to taking that video, here is it being used on a desk

Yup, that really does not look terrible at all. Nice one

[Rama]

Yup, that really does not look terrible at all. Nice one

Thanks mate! Sorry about the crappy quality video X_X Just had my phone on me at the time

[livingspeedbump]

Hi! I'm brand new here myself, so just getting used to it.

If I may ask, how heavy is your macropad with switches? I couldn't find that info anywhere.

He said about half a kilo.

The design looks very uncomfortable to use. If you had it lying down on a flat surface and you had to access it by supporting your wrist on the desk, the angle looks very uncomfortable. You just kept pressing it with one finger, so it isn't as obvious, but I don't think that's the intended way of using it, or?

The comfort of it was one of my concerns as well. The wrist angle seemed really unnatural in the video.

[Rama]

The comfort of it was one of my concerns as well. The wrist angle seemed really unnatural in the video.

Hey LSB!

May just of been the way I was filming it, holding my phone in my left hand and awkwardly using the device in the other (which felt really unnatural).

Switching between my left hand on a HHKB and the M10, my wrist was in the exact same position for both, so I can assure that it's comfortable to use, but yeah it's probably not for everyone It was never designed to be super ergonomic, more of a desk piece ^_^ Got another prototype coming in next week which I cannot wait to show!

[livingspeedbump]

The comfort of it was one of my concerns as well. The wrist angle seemed really unnatural in the video.

Hey LSB!

May just of been the way I was filming it, holding my phone in my left hand and awkwardly using the device in the other (which felt really unnatural).

Switching between my left hand on a HHKB and the M10, my wrist was in the exact same position for both, so I can assure that it's comfortable to use, but yeah it's probably not for everyone It was never designed to be super ergonomic, more of a desk piece ^_^ Got another prototype coming in next week which I cannot wait to show!

Nobody (er....), most won't argue that it looks fantastic, I sure think so. Being tax season and all, I was just envisioning using this as my numpad and typing away on it, since I generally only use TKL's or less. Definitely can't make a total judgement call from a single video though.

The software you had did look great though, and excellent feature that should not be overlooked.

[Rama]

Nobody (er....), most won't argue that it looks fantastic, I sure think so. Being tax season and all, I was just envisioning using this as my numpad and typing away on it, since I generally only use TKL's or less. Definitely can't make a total judgement call from a single video though.

The software you had did look great though, and excellent feature that should not be overlooked.

Yeah I get you mate! If you have access to a 3D printer or something, you can 3d print your own one and try it out I suppose :E

It's definitely tricky to discern, it's obviously not the most ergonomic thing, not by a long shot - but it's very usable over a long period of time, I personally find it comfortable - but yeah others may not

Ohh, I cannot take any credit on the software, that was all the hard work of 27percent (Machine Industries), he did an absolutely amazing job. All of it will be open-sourced so hopefully other keyboard makers can utilize it

Thanks again for the input LSB

[livingspeedbump]

Nobody (er....), most won't argue that it looks fantastic, I sure think so. Being tax season and all, I was just envisioning using this as my numpad and typing away on it, since I generally only use TKL's or less. Definitely can't make a total judgement call from a single video though.

The software you had did look great though, and excellent feature that should not be overlooked.

Yeah I get you mate! If you have access to a 3D printer or something, you can 3d print your own one and try it out I suppose :E

It's definitely tricky to discern, it's obviously not the most ergonomic thing, not by a long shot - but it's very usable over a long period of time, I personally find it comfortable - but yeah others may not

Ohh, I cannot take any credit on the software, that was all the hard work of 27percent (Machine Industries), he did an absolutely amazing job. All of it will be open-sourced so hopefully other keyboard makers can utilize it

Thanks again for the input LSB

Well, obviously as with any project you have to decide what is most important, and what aspects to juggle. The most ergonomic keypad ever created probably wouldn't look too great, and the best looking may not feel that good.

What I really need to do is just dig up my old M0120 numpad and refresh my memory on how it feels, like Chyros said, looks quite similar

[Rama]

Well, obviously as with any project you have to decide what is most important, and what aspects to juggle. The most ergonomic keypad ever created probably wouldn't look too great, and the best looking may not feel that good.

What I really need to do is just dig up my old M0120 numpad and refresh my memory on how it feels, like Chyros said, looks quite similar

Haha yeah absolutely dead-on mate!

Oh my god you have an M0120?? ENVY. I want to buy one of those and the M0110 and just admire it One day I want a room dedicated to keyboards, my own little keyboard museum

[livingspeedbump]

Is there any reason not to have a key where the "RAMA" log is, or allow for buyers to have the option on the PCB to have two 1U keys where the 2U key at the bottom is? The lack of keys does kind of limit the use this can have even as a numpad sadly.

Pulled out the old M0120, and ended up with this:


Unfortunately very uncomfortable for any extended use, which also would limit the usefulness as a gaming pad as well in my opinion.

So while it looks fun and quality seems very good, my concern would be the limited use for numpad and gaming pad+relative discomfort+price may make this a hard sell.

Using it purely as a macro pad would be fine, the software looks great, but again the final price scares me. Anyone can essentially make a macro pad for the cost of a teensy these days.

[Malenky]

I'm pretty sure as far as ergonomics go, you shouldn't be resting your wrist on the desk anyway. Also, the whole point is that this is entirely programmable, so you could map mathematical functions to modifiers, but I think if you're using it more as a calculator then maybe a standard numpad or, you know, a calculator, is best for you.

The only thing I would change is that I would (at least like the option to) have the 2u key at the bottom on the left. I would position this to the right of my mouse and could see myself sort of curling my thumb under to hit that key. This is something I do with my left hand on alt, mainly for MMO gaming, so it seems like a pretty natural position to me.

Either way, as I've said before, this is a thing of absolute beauty and I salute you for the design. It's solid without being overly bulky and there is attention to detail while retaining an overall simplicity.

[livingspeedbump]

I'm pretty sure as far as ergonomics go, you shouldn't be resting your wrist on the desk anyway. Also, the whole point is that this is entirely programmable, so you could map mathematical functions to modifiers, but I think if you're using it more as a calculator then maybe a standard numpad or, you know, a calculator, is best for you.

I understand this, but what I'm getting at is that for $125, being a sub par gaming pad due to comfort, and a sub par numpad makes the price hard to swallow. All I am getting at. The quality of the pad is essentially something you'd want to leave on your desk and use all the time, especially for TKL and smaller form keyboard users. An extra row up top, or the ability to use 3 keys on the bottom row instead of the single 2U key would really help make it more viable imo.

[Rama]

Is there any reason not to have a key where the "RAMA" log is, or allow for buyers to have the option on the PCB to have two 1U keys where the 2U key at the bottom is? The lack of keys does kind of limit the use this can have even as a numpad sadly.

Pulled out the old M0120, and ended up with this:


Unfortunately very uncomfortable for any extended use, which also would limit the usefulness as a gaming pad as well in my opinion.

So while it looks fun and quality seems very good, my concern would be the limited use for numpad and gaming pad+relative discomfort+price may make this a hard sell.

Using it purely as a macro pad would be fine, the software looks great, but again the final price scares me. Anyone can essentially make a macro pad for the cost of a teensy these days.

I understand this, but what I'm getting at is that for $125, being a sub par gaming pad due to comfort, and a sub par numpad makes the price hard to swallow. All I am getting at. The quality of the pad is essentially something you'd want to leave on your desk and use all the time, especially for TKL and smaller form keyboard users. An extra row up top, or the ability to use 3 keys on the bottom row instead of the single 2U key would really help make it more viable imo.

Hey LSB, in terms of design and logo placement, this is something I will not be changing. From the beginning it was never designed to be a full numpad replacement.

In terms of pricing, I don't know if you realize this or not, but this is not mass manufactured, it's batch manufactured (in small quantities) and each enclosure is separately CNC machined aluminium, on more sides than 2 which involves a lot of rejigging and positions. It is an expensive product to make, each one also has to be primed, coated, then oven baked. And I'm not even turning much of a profit on this, and everything that is profit is split into two. From the start I wanted to make the device as cheap as possible whilst also being high quality/luxurious. I've been from the start looking at ways to add even more value as well. And have spent a lot of personal investment into prototyping and getting things right so that the end-product can be something someone would be proud to have on their desk and use. I'm sorry if this all sounds aggressive, but it's getting a little tiring being told to add more keys or it's "subpar". If I add anything to it, it's no longer going to be the product I set out to make, the M10 (TEN) not the m11, not the m18. I just wanted to show the community something I've been working on, more of a personal project and a foray into doing my first keyboard product and allow people to own one if it's something they're interested in. If it's not for you, then it's not for you, I'm not changing the M10 into something it is not, it's simply a well-made 10-key macropad, that's all! It's not trying to be something it is not. In the future I definitely want to do a bigger board, and probably even end up making a numpad.

Not sure what you where getting at with "anyone could make a macro pad for the cost of a teensy these days", yes they could, and they're welcome to. In fact, anyone could make an m10 themselves, it's entirely open source. There is a whole lot of difference between the two though.

EDIT: apologies for being so defensive It just gets a little tiring sometimes gah. Just having a bad day too I guess

I'm pretty sure as far as ergonomics go, you shouldn't be resting your wrist on the desk anyway. Also, the whole point is that this is entirely programmable, so you could map mathematical functions to modifiers, but I think if you're using it more as a calculator then maybe a standard numpad or, you know, a calculator, is best for you.

The only thing I would change is that I would (at least like the option to) have the 2u key at the bottom on the left. I would position this to the right of my mouse and could see myself sort of curling my thumb under to hit that key. This is something I do with my left hand on alt, mainly for MMO gaming, so it seems like a pretty natural position to me.

Either way, as I've said before, this is a thing of absolute beauty and I salute you for the design. It's solid without being overly bulky and there is attention to detail while retaining an overall simplicity.

Hey Malenky, thanks heaps for the kind words I'm glad you understand the products intentions.

I understand the whole left/right positioning thing, and it's hard to choose a location for it and please everyone. It was designed to be used to the left of the keyboard, so you can use the M10 and the mouse at the same time rather than the M10 and a Keyboard at the same time. Ultimately I'd love to do a mirrored version, but it all comes down to cost of production and feasibility :'(

Appreciate the sentiment on the design man, thanks heaps!!

[Rama]

Is there any reason not to have a key where the "RAMA" log is, or allow for buyers to have the option on the PCB to have two 1U keys where the 2U key at the bottom is? The lack of keys does kind of limit the use this can have even as a numpad sadly.

Pulled out the old M0120, and ended up with this:


Unfortunately very uncomfortable for any extended use, which also would limit the usefulness as a gaming pad as well in my opinion.

So while it looks fun and quality seems very good, my concern would be the limited use for numpad and gaming pad+relative discomfort+price may make this a hard sell.

Using it purely as a macro pad would be fine, the software looks great, but again the final price scares me. Anyone can essentially make a macro pad for the cost of a teensy these days.

I understand this, but what I'm getting at is that for $125, being a sub par gaming pad due to comfort, and a sub par numpad makes the price hard to swallow. All I am getting at. The quality of the pad is essentially something you'd want to leave on your desk and use all the time, especially for TKL and smaller form keyboard users. An extra row up top, or the ability to use 3 keys on the bottom row instead of the single 2U key would really help make it more viable imo.

Hey LSB, in terms of design and logo placement, this is something I will not be changing. From the beginning it was never designed to be a full numpad replacement.

In terms of pricing, I don't know if you realize this or not, but this is not mass manufactured, it's batch manufactured (in small quantities) and each enclosure is separately CNC machined aluminium, on more sides than 2 which involves a lot of rejigging and positioning. It is an expensive product to make, each one also has to be primed, coated, then oven baked. And I'm not even turning much of a profit on this, and everything that is profit is split into two. From the start I wanted to make the device as cheap as possible whilst also being high quality/luxurious. I've been from the start looking at ways to add even more value as well. And have spent a lot of personal investment into prototyping and getting things right so that the end-product can be something someone would be proud to have on their desk and use. I'm sorry if this all sounds aggressive, but it's getting a little tiring being told to add more keys or it's "subpar". If I add anything to it, it's no longer going to be the product I set out to make, the M10 (TEN) not the m11, not the m18. I just wanted to show the community something I've been working on, more of a personal project and a foray into doing my first keyboard product and allow people to own one if it's something they're interested in. If it's not for you, then it's not for you, I'm not changing the M10 into something it is not, it's simply a well-made 10-key macropad, that's all! It's not trying to be something it is not. In the future I definitely want to do a bigger board, and probably even end up making a numpad.

Not sure what you where getting at with "anyone could make a macro pad for the cost of a teensy these days", yes they could, and they're welcome to. In fact, anyone could make an m10 themselves, it's entirely open source. There is a whole lot of difference between the two though.

EDIT: apologies for being so defensive It just gets a little tiring sometimes gah. Just having a bad day too I guess

I'm pretty sure as far as ergonomics go, you shouldn't be resting your wrist on the desk anyway. Also, the whole point is that this is entirely programmable, so you could map mathematical functions to modifiers, but I think if you're using it more as a calculator then maybe a standard numpad or, you know, a calculator, is best for you.

The only thing I would change is that I would (at least like the option to) have the 2u key at the bottom on the left. I would position this to the right of my mouse and could see myself sort of curling my thumb under to hit that key. This is something I do with my left hand on alt, mainly for MMO gaming, so it seems like a pretty natural position to me.

Either way, as I've said before, this is a thing of absolute beauty and I salute you for the design. It's solid without being overly bulky and there is attention to detail while retaining an overall simplicity.

Hey Malenky, thanks heaps for the kind words I'm glad you understand the products intentions.

I understand the whole left/right positioning thing, and it's hard to choose a location for it and please everyone. It was designed to be used to the left of the keyboard, so you can use the M10 and the mouse at the same time rather than the M10 and a Keyboard at the same time. Ultimately I'd love to do a mirrored version, but it all comes down to cost of production and feasibility :'(

Appreciate the sentiment on the design man, thanks heaps!!

[livingspeedbump]

In terms of pricing, I don't know if you realize this or not, but this is not mass manufactured, it's batch manufactured (in small quantities) and each enclosure is separately CNC machined aluminium, on more sides than 2 which involves a lot of rejigging and positioning. It is an expensive product to make, each one also has to be primed, coated, then oven baked. And I'm not even turning much of a profit on this, and everything that is profit is split into two. From the start I wanted to make the device as cheap as possible whilst also being high quality/luxurious. I've been from the start looking at ways to add even more value as well. And have spent a lot of personal investment into prototyping and getting things right so that the end-product can be something someone would be proud to have on their desk and use. I'm sorry if this all sounds aggressive, but it's getting a little tiring being told to add more keys or it's "subpar". If I add anything to it, it's no longer going to be the product I set out to make, the M10 (TEN) not the m11, not the m18. I just wanted to show the community something I've been working on, more of a personal project and a foray into doing my first keyboard product and allow people to own one if it's something they're interested in. If it's not for you, then it's not for you, I'm not changing the M10 into something it is not, it's simply a well-made 10-key macropad, that's all! It's not trying to be something it is not. In the future I definitely want to do a bigger board, and probably even end up making a numpad.

Not sure what you where getting at with "anyone could make a macro pad for the cost of a teensy these days", yes they could, and they're welcome to. In fact, anyone could make an m10 themselves, it's entirely open source. There is a whole lot of difference between the two though.

EDIT: apologies for being so defensive It just gets a little tiring sometimes gah. Just having a bad day too I guess

I was just shooting out ideas/thoughts. The fact that this is a personal thing, and a set in place design would be good to mention in the OP though, same with what you intend it to me or not to be. Otherwise we are going to throw out ideas, and thoughts, and suggestions. When that happens nobody, self included, is saying it is sub-par, just stating thoughts/opinions.

[Rama]

I was just shooting out ideas/thoughts. The fact that this is a personal thing, and a set in place design would be good to mention in the OP though, same with what you intend it to me or not to be. Otherwise we are going to throw out ideas, and thoughts, and suggestions. When that happens nobody, self included, is saying it is sub-par, just stating thoughts/opinions.

Ahh I know mate, and I do really appreciate it, apologies for getting so defensive. I will definitely take on board a lot of the comments/ideas for my next project for sure! Projects like these are really fun for me, and to have an actual avenue to release and produce products is really amazing, and to have a community which supports that is really so great.

Thanks again LSB