Need advice for disassembly of Realforce

[ghostdawg187]

Recently I have been in Tokyo and have taken the opportunity to visit the sofmap/BIC-stores in Akihabara. There I have bought a Topre Realforce 87 UW 55g. I really like the keyboard but the build quality is not that outstanding as it is always claimed.

I have got 2 problems with this keyboard, which I kindly ask the deskthority community to help me to resolve.

i.) Awkward sound on some keys:
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Unfortunately down and right and in particular the left arrow key make some annoying sound on the upstroke. It sounds like a "plop" of the rubber cap, whenever the dome relaxes on the upstroke. It really distracts me from my work, since no other keys show this strange behavior. I would not care, if it was some other keys I don't use that much, but for navigating through source files I tend to use the arrow keys a lot. I am a total newbie when it comes to dissembling keyboards, but I guess I have to dissemble this one, since I think that the spring does not sit quite well in its rubber dome and therefore causes this annoying sound on the arrow keys. So I have watched at least 10 times following video on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3HhDMS-nNE

to learn how to dissemble a Realforce keyboard. But do you even think, that this might help to resolve the problem? I could try to make a video for demonstration, where one could possibly hear this strange sound of the arrow keys. Maybe some keyboard guru can identify the problem and knows what to do.

ii.) Misaligned keys:
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Some keycaps look totally misaligned. For instance the key with character "R", look here:



There are some more examples of this somewhat obscure build quality. Is this caused by the plunger or is the fault of the keycaps, which might have an inferior build quality? Is there any chance to correct this mistake?

It was really a cool adventure to go to Akihabara and to pruchase a Topre keyboard in Tokyo. The employees at sofmap could barley understand my English, but somehow I have manged to tell them, which keyboard I would like to have. But now, 2 weeks after this really cool adventure I am a little disappointed of the Topre keyboard. Maybe someone has an idea, what I could do. If I would live in Tokyo I would go to sofmap, but I do not have this opportunity, since I live in Germany and there is no possibility going back to Japan in the near future . I have also tried to contact Topre, but they have never replied to my concerns and don't feel responsible.

Many thanks in advance for any sort of advice

[wobbled]

The misaligned keys may just be a flaw in the manufacturing, similar to how some HHKB Pro 2 Type S cases arrived warped or make farting sounds when you actuate the keys.

As for the strange sound coming from the keys, definitely take the board apart and give it a good clean, possibly even some lube if you have any. You could also switch the domes from Escape and F1 with the arrow keys (or any other key for that matter) which will negate the problem if an internal clean doesn't work.

Also if the keyboard was bought used (?) it may have been re-assembled incorrectly or possibly assembled incorrectly from factory, I've had that a couple of times when buying used realforce and HHKB boards off ebay so taking it apart and putting it back together could also do the trick.

Good luck anyway!

[depletedvespene]

… similar to how some HHKB Pro 2 Type S cases arrived warped or make farting sounds when you actuate the keys.

Whoopeeboards? Where do i get one of those?



Sorry, I'll see myself out.

[wobbled]

… similar to how some HHKB Pro 2 Type S cases arrived warped or make farting sounds when you actuate the keys.

Whoopeeboards? Where do i get one of those?



Sorry, I'll see myself out.

LOL no need, it's an inherent feature of all rubber domes! Have a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gzp7KTUcPc

[depletedvespene]

… similar to how some HHKB Pro 2 Type S cases arrived warped or make farting sounds when you actuate the keys.

Whoopeeboards? Where do i get one of those?



Sorry, I'll see myself out.

LOL no need, it's an inherent feature of all rubber domes! Have a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gzp7KTUcPc

Who cares about that? I want mechanical farts!

[consolation]

I have never seen an RF with those kinds of issues, I doubt it would have cleared QC. My guess is that the previous owner spilt something that is making everything sticky, or, the top of the board got really hot at some stage and the barrels are warped. First one would be an easy clean, second - sorry op... If you see an RF with any misalignment, sticking etc, I would pass on it; they should be buttery smooth and tight.

[002]

OP's post takes me back to when I got my first Realforce in 2010 and had the *exact* same problem. I posted on geekhack with an image showing the snaggle-tooth key and asked if others have noticed it. At the time, I got in touch with EliteKeyboards who put me in direct contact with Topre's sales rep.

IIRC I was told that the flaw with the askew key was a side effect of Topre's plunger design and there wasn't much they could do about it, he even showed me a picture of his own Realforce that had a similar issue (although admittedly, mine was worse). They don't consider it a defect and likely won't replace your keyboard. If it really bothers you a lot then you could see if someone has a spare Topre switch housing and plunger and replace the offending key but even then it might not resolve it if the square hole that was punched into the backplate is not straight.

[ghostdawg187]

IIRC I was told that the flaw with the askew key was a side effect of Topre's plunger design and there wasn't much they could do about it, he even showed me a picture of his own Realforce that had a similar issue (although admittedly, mine was worse). They don't consider it a defect and likely won't replace your keyboard. If it really bothers you a lot then you could see if someone has a spare Topre switch housing and plunger and replace the offending key but even then it might not resolve it if the square hole that was punched into the backplate is not straight.

Thank you very much for giving me this kind of information. I have read your former thread on geekhack and I have to totally agree that it somehow looks like British teeth. If it was a joke, then c'mon, but this thing claims to be an high end keyboard and there are even more keys on my keyboard, which are askew. Looks like a small child has tried to build a keyboard and the result is somehow questionable.

I have never seen an RF with those kinds of issues, I doubt it would have cleared QC. My guess is that the previous owner spilt something that is making everything sticky, or, the top of the board got really hot at some stage and the barrels are warped. First one would be an easy clean, second - sorry op... If you see an RF with any misalignment, sticking etc, I would pass on it; they should be buttery smooth and tight.

I have paid nearly 150 Euros taxfree at the BIC/sofmap store in Akihabara. I have got the advice from someone else in this forum, that sofmap would also sell used keyboards. I have asked for a used one, but did not have any. I have never really wanted to pay so much for a Topre board, but I have thought what a nice souvenir it would be to come home with a Topre keyboard from Tokyo. Now I am f**** up and totally disappointed of RF keyboards. The Japanese people over there tend to be so perfect, but this keyboard is just unintentionally hilarious, British teeth and awkward sounds on the upstroke, which drive me nuts.

Topre just does not reply. I do not think that contacting sofmap/BIC is any good idea. They did not understand English and for any refund I would have to go back to Tokyo. So it was a bad idea to buy a Topre keyboard in Akihabara, but a cool adventure in its own way.

As for the strange sound coming from the keys, definitely take the board apart and give it a good clean, possibly even some lube if you have any. You could also switch the domes from Escape and F1 with the arrow keys (or any other key for that matter) which will negate the problem if an internal clean doesn't work.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I will definitely take it apart and see what is going on there. I don't think it will need cleaning, since it is new. Also I have got no lube. I guess that it was assembled incorrectly such that the spring is misaligned or whatsoever. I will take it apart and hope it will fix the issue. If not, I guess it will land on marketplace or asking for some help of some Topre guru at deskthority, giving it surgery, which I am not able to do.

[TuxKey]

I have paid nearly 150 Euros taxfree at the BIC/sofmap store in Akihabara. I have got the advice from someone else in this forum, that sofmap would also sell used keyboards. I have asked for a used one, but did not have any. I have never really wanted to pay so much for a Topre board, but I have thought what a nice souvenir it would be to come home with a Topre keyboard from Tokyo. Now I am f**** up and totally disappointed of RF keyboards. The Japanese people over there tend to be so perfect, but this keyboard is just unintentionally hilarious, British teeth and awkward sounds on the upstroke, which drive me nuts.

Topre just does not reply. I do not think that contacting sofmap/BIC is any good idea. They did not understand English and for any refund I would have to go back to Tokyo. So it was a bad idea to buy a Topre keyboard in Akihabara, but a cool adventure in its own way.

i don't think it was a bad idea to buy from Akihabara it's a risk you took and it did pay of you saved a lot of €€ i paid around €250 for my FC660C from an ebay seller. Half a year later MyKeyboards.eu is selling the same board for €200 so i lost €50 on that deal..
What i'm trying to say is sometimes you go in it with your eyes open wide. i got a monitor for my wife a couple of weeks ago.
a large 43inch beast from LG costing €700 from one store that offered 30days no questions asked return and clear rules for service and almost 24hour customer service. A different store most others in fact sell the same display for €54 less. knowing that i'm going to buy one in the future for my self this would mean a saving of more then €100 !!
But being able to return it and have piece of mind is also worth something.
Your choice is a good one , only problem was not checking it when you bought it on location telling them your going on a Plane showing your ticket and saying you need to see , need to try it pointing to your eyes hahaha...

btw i have tried a couple of Topre boards also RF and the quality is awesome in my humble opinion typing on a FC660C, yours is the exemption not the rule.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I will definitely take it apart and see what is going on there. I don't think it will need cleaning, since it is new. Also I have got no lube. I guess that it was assembled incorrectly such that the spring is misaligned or whatsoever. I will take it apart and hope it will fix the issue. If not, I guess it will land on marketplace or asking for some help of some Topre guru at deskthority, giving it surgery, which I am not able to do.

i think opening it up having a look is a great idea it's a risk worth taking, and taking your time will minimalize problems.
There are enough places where you can buy lube it's worth doing sum research on that. i think people here can advice for sure.
Don't sweat it lot's of people make mistakes with keyboards or for that matter everything in life.
This problem can be solved, and if not like you stated it was a good lesson you gambled and did not win big.
You can't win them all..
Next time buy from UK reseller or EU store i mentioned..And if your looking for a good ebay seller wide basket is the one i bought from perfect keyboard no issues what so ever..
Qtang on the other hand is less good in my humble opinion.. But next time i'l buy a keyboard it's going to be from the Mykeyboard.eu just because of the great service and cheap shipping..
i have a bought from Massdrop in fact just did couple months ago board is not in yet ..but import duties are killing me in The Netherlands..Still better service then directly from South Korea or china..

[ghostdawg187]

^^ Finally I have got it managed, with great assistance by my girlfriend, to open up this Topre board. We were able to follow the suggestion to swap the rubber domes of the affected arrow keys with some domes from keys I do not use that often. It was the only solution to the problem of the strange sound on the upstroke, since the rubber domes themselves while depressing and in case of relaxing made this awkward sound. So swapping them, for me as a noob, was the only solution.

So now everything is working fine, besides these askew keys, which is not bug according to Topre but a feature....lol

Thanks a lot guys, for your help, suggestions and comments.

[wobbled]

You are welcome!

Also User: Wazazaby is selling some of his spare topre domes if you are interested in replacing the damaged ones.

[E3E]

Yep, I've seen some crooked keys on a board before, and it's not a case of the key being misaligned on the stem as much as it is an issue with the plate.

Also yeah, your first time disassembling and reassembling a Topre board is bound to be an experience, especially in making sure you've reseated every dome and sping correctly.

I've noticed, especially for 30g domes, if you screw up the alignment by just a pinch (easy to do on stabilized keys), it absolutely ruins the feel of the dome.