Thoughts from a guy who has repaired keyboards for over 30 years

[elecplus]

When I picked up the keyboards in San Antonio today, the guy was amazed that you guys prefer model Fs over Model Ms. He has repaired both for over 30 years, and he says Fs are deficient He says the Ms are easier to repair, and break a lot less often. And he says Fs are a royal pain to reassemble. Might be true, but he just does not get that capacitive goodness! I have not had many defective Fs, but I sure have had a lot of defective Ms and M2s!

[hasu]

I hope the guy is willing to share professional skills with us like these!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuz2tu ... GSXollfH0A

[elecplus]

Ugh! His tech has been with him since he was a teenager. The 107 is just an example of the beautiful job they did on keyboards. Unfortunately, they no longer have any real interest in them.

[depletedvespene]

I hope the guy is willing to share professional skills with us like these!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuz2tu ... GSXollfH0A

Hasu, for Heaven's sake! Put up a spoiler warning!!!

[depletedvespene]

When I picked up the keyboards in San Antonio today, the guy was amazed that you guys prefer model Fs over Model Ms. He has repaired both for over 30 years, and he says Fs are deficient He says the Ms are easier to repair, and break a lot less often. And he says Fs are a royal pain to reassemble. Might be true, but he just does not get that capacitive goodness! I have not had many defective Fs, but I sure have had a lot of defective Ms and M2s!

I... wonder... how much in the way of spare parts he's got.

[seebart]

When I picked up the keyboards in San Antonio today, the guy was amazed that you guys prefer model Fs over Model Ms. He has repaired both for over 30 years, and he says Fs are deficient He says the Ms are easier to repair, and break a lot less often. And he says Fs are a royal pain to reassemble. Might be true, but he just does not get that capacitive goodness! I have not had many defective Fs, but I sure have had a lot of defective Ms and M2s!

In terms of reparability he's right. I'm sure there were several reasons for IBM to move from capacitive to membrane, this being one of them. On the other hand I've actaully met people that truly prefer M to F for other reasons.

[DustGod]

We really, REALLY could use the knowledge of this guy!

In terms of reparability he's right. I'm sure there were several reasons for IBM to move from capacitive to membrane, this being one of them. On the other hand I've actaully met people that truly prefer M to F for other reasons.

Me too. Mainly for the sound: quite a few people like the "thock" sound of the M more than the super-reverberating ringing of the F (especially Fs with a metal back panel).

[wobbled]

When I picked up the keyboards in San Antonio today, the guy was amazed that you guys prefer model Fs over Model Ms. He has repaired both for over 30 years, and he says Fs are deficient He says the Ms are easier to repair, and break a lot less often. And he says Fs are a royal pain to reassemble. Might be true, but he just does not get that capacitive goodness! I have not had many defective Fs, but I sure have had a lot of defective Ms and M2s!

In terms of reparability he's right. I'm sure there were several reasons for IBM to move from capacitive to membrane, this being one of them. On the other hand I've actaully met people that truly prefer M to F for other reasons.

After buying that numpad I honestly think Model F & M hybrids are the best feeling (usually found on M50's and numpads)
They sound more like a Model F than a Model M, they feel like they have longer & smoother travel than Model M's but not quite linear like Model F's do, and have a tactile feel somewhere between an F and an M. Wish they made full keyboards this way!

[depletedvespene]

After buying that numpad I honestly think Model F & M hybrids are the best feeling (usually found on M50's and numpads)
They sound more like a Model F than a Model M, they feel like they have longer & smoother travel than Model M's but not quite linear like Model F's do, and have a tactile feel somewhere between an F and an M. Wish they made full keyboards this way!

I got two of those, and I have entertained the thought of plugging them both at the same time and make a kind of split ortholinear keyboard. Perhaps I should...

[seebart]

We really, REALLY could use the knowledge of this guy!

In terms of reparability he's right. I'm sure there were several reasons for IBM to move from capacitive to membrane, this being one of them. On the other hand I've actaully met people that truly prefer M to F for other reasons.

Me too. Mainly for the sound: quite a few people like the "thock" sound of the M more than the super-reverberating ringing of the F (especially Fs with a metal back panel).

Sure why not. I'm the exact opposite, this is as good as it gets for me with model F:

keyboards-f2/ibm-displaywriter-model-f- ... playwriter

After buying that numpad I honestly think Model F & M hybrids are the best feeling (usually found on M50's and numpads)They sound more like a Model F than a Model M, they feel like they have longer & smoother travel than Model M's but not quite linear like Model F's do, and have a tactile feel somewhere between an F and an M. Wish they made full keyboards this way!

Yeah I'd still love to try either lot_lizard or idollar's MF projects.

[wobbled]

After buying that numpad I honestly think Model F & M hybrids are the best feeling (usually found on M50's and numpads)
They sound more like a Model F than a Model M, they feel like they have longer & smoother travel than Model M's but not quite linear like Model F's do, and have a tactile feel somewhere between an F and an M. Wish they made full keyboards this way!

I got two of those, and I have entertained the thought of plugging them both at the same time and make a kind of split ortholinear keyboard. Perhaps I should...

You totally should! Don't let those badboys go to waste! I wish I had picked up some M50's back when they were dirt cheap.

[depletedvespene]

I got two of those, and I have entertained the thought of plugging them both at the same time and make a kind of split ortholinear keyboard. Perhaps I should...

You totally should! Don't let those badboys go to waste! I wish I had picked up some M50's back when they were dirt cheap.

Oh, they're NOT going to waste. I'm using the one in the pictures from my two posts to teach my kid about keyboard customization and I'm preparing the other one to be a leftside auxiliary pad (because 122 keys are not enough!).

Still, I'm gonna try the split keyboard thing. We'll see how it goes. Perhaps I'll have to contact that Argentinian seller, to get the Lexmark units he still has...

[wobbled]

I got two of those, and I have entertained the thought of plugging them both at the same time and make a kind of split ortholinear keyboard. Perhaps I should...

You totally should! Don't let those badboys go to waste! I wish I had picked up some M50's back when they were dirt cheap.

Oh, they're NOT going to waste. I'm using the one in the pictures from my two posts to get teach my kid about keyboard customization and I'm preparing the other one to be a leftside auxiliary pad (because 122 keys are not enough!).

Still, I'm gonna try the split thing. We'll see how it goes. And perhaps I'll have to contact that Argentinian seller, to get the Lexmark units he still has...

You must be doing some serious shit if 122 keys aren't enough I get through most days now with just a hhkb

[seebart]

(because 122 keys are not enough!).

Contact kbdfr for more ideas and in the meatime have a look at the G80-0081 if you havn't done so:

keyboards-f2/g80-0081-revealed-t11915.h ... t=berthold

[depletedvespene]

Ok, that MAY be a tad too much.

I've half-jokingly designed a 132-key layout. Why 132? Because that's the magic number to reach, and anything over that would just be excessive. And in keeping with the military theme, such a keyboard would be nicknamed "monitor", for the obvious reasons.

Perhaps I should start a thread about non-existing, idealized form factors.

[seebart]

I say power to the "numpad" concept, something like this is brilliant IMO:

wiki/Epson_Business_Full_Keyboard

Epson_BFKBPS2_--_Front.jpg (347.46 KiB) Viewed 3514 times

[DustGod]

Sure why not. I'm the exact opposite, this is as good as it gets for me with model F:

keyboards-f2/ibm-displaywriter-model-f- ... playwriter

I couldn't agree more. I really like the reverb of the sound (I just make sure to have a pair of good headphones at hand for audio ).

[depletedvespene]

Even before I learned about the BFK thanks to Chyros' review, I had been thinking to use one of the two Model 100 units I have in a similar fashion, programming its clusters (from left to right) as numeric cluster, nav cluster and F-keys cluster (plus Undo/Redo and Cut/Copy/Paste). This way I could put it to my left side and use comfortably something smaller than an SSK, with the mouse right next to its right.

I guess that the main entertainment for me with keyboards is not to build them from scratch, but to create new logical layouts over what I've got under my hands already.

[Chyros]

When I picked up the keyboards in San Antonio today, the guy was amazed that you guys prefer model Fs over Model Ms. He has repaired both for over 30 years, and he says Fs are deficient He says the Ms are easier to repair, and break a lot less often. And he says Fs are a royal pain to reassemble. Might be true, but he just does not get that capacitive goodness! I have not had many defective Fs, but I sure have had a lot of defective Ms and M2s!

I guess he gets more F's because they can actually be repaired, whereas M's tend to get proper "DED" instead.

[wobbled]

When I picked up the keyboards in San Antonio today, the guy was amazed that you guys prefer model Fs over Model Ms. He has repaired both for over 30 years, and he says Fs are deficient He says the Ms are easier to repair, and break a lot less often. And he says Fs are a royal pain to reassemble. Might be true, but he just does not get that capacitive goodness! I have not had many defective Fs, but I sure have had a lot of defective Ms and M2s!

I guess he gets more F's because they can actually be repaired, whereas M's tend to get proper "DED" instead.

M's can pretty much never die due to every part being readily available for replacement.

[andrewjoy]

I am not sure i agree that an F is harder to repair.

You don't need any special tools to fix an F , sure they make it MUCH simpler but you can do it all with a flat head screwdriver and some strong hands.

An M on the other hand you need to split the plate bolt or screw mod it to get it back together . The membrane is also harder to fix than jumping a few broken traces on a PCB.

Sure if yoru fully tooled up and have jigs or whatever the M may be faster to repair in bulk , but for an average guy at home F is much more repairable.

After buying that numpad I honestly think Model F & M hybrids are the best feeling (usually found on M50's and numpads)
They sound more like a Model F than a Model M, they feel like they have longer & smoother travel than Model M's but not quite linear like Model F's do, and have a tactile feel somewhere between an F and an M. Wish they made full keyboards this way!

Ahh the "proto"M, yes it would be awesome if they made a full model M with that. I think there may have been one in IBMs development lab at some point but its long gone.

The only advantage i see of the M design over F is the layout and cost , F is superior in every other way. The proto M prob exists as some lobster accountant with a MA walks in lets call him Mr D. Head. And he is all like " what the hell are you doing making a full PCB for every keyboard , to hell with that, get a membrane in there , everyone uses membrane now "