Unicomp Ultra Classic dropping rivets too quickly...

[Blackbird002]

Hello,

This is my first post here. Just like others on this forum, I'm a keyboard enthusiast as well. I have a Model M (42H1292), Model F AT (converted to USB) and plenty of other modern mechanical keyboards. For the past 3 years, I've owned a Unicomp Ultra Classic (membrane buckling spring) keyboard that I've used time/time. I've noticed - slowly over the years, an increase in "plastic debris rattles" when I would replace this keyboard with my daily driver. Today, I opened up the keyboard and I was surprised to see many plastic rivets that broke off (please see the pictures). I quickly opened up my 1996 Model M to compare and only found one.. yes one rivet that broke off. I wanted to make this post here to see if other Unicomp owners noticed this. This keyboard is only ~3 years old and it's already doing way worse then my 1996 IBM Model M.

ps. All my keyboards are stored in a cool & dry place (AC). Thanks

[JP!]

Time for a bolt mod!

[ddrfraser1]

Yep. To give more context to JPs comment, this inevitably happens to all model Ms. It's one of the few design flaws. Look up how to do a bolt mod on youtube. It's pretty easy once you get your head around it and once your done, your keyboard will be even better than before. The youtube tutorials will point you in the right direction as far as tools and materials needed. If you have trouble, we'll be happy to help! Good luck!

[Weezer]

I don't own a Unicomp, but yes, Unicomps are of a lower quality.

Can't speak to the specifics of the rivets however because it's possible that you have an outlier. I haven't heard of many people complaining about them falling off any faster. It could be an issue with the plastic, or the keyboard could have fallen at some point, it's hard to say.

[JP!]

I've seen old boards with rivets that won't come off and others where you easily peel them all off. Maybe there was something off with the plastic or the manufacturing process the day it was made. Hard to say for sure without some science and engineering expertise.

[SneakyRobb]

I've seen old boards with rivets that won't come off and others where you easily feel them all off. Maybe there was something off with the plastic or the manufacturing process the day it was made. Hard to say for sure without some science and engineering expertise.

The springs in the model F/M are always under tension with the keycap on. A model M/F flipper will lay flat without a keycap.
Resting down on the pcb/membranes.

With a cap, its up, the spring is flexed with the flipper up. This means the spring is flexed. So the springs are always pressing up between the plate and the barrel plate.housing. The keyboard with keycaps always has a desire to separate and fly apart. Not that much force, but I imagine with pressing keys which both releases pressure in some areas and increases in others, flexes the board and general plastic materials. Seems like the flex over time would shear those rivets.

Not sure if the back plate of the model m flexes, but its not hard to me at least, to imagine how these forces over time would create shear forces on the rivet.


Not 100% sure though.

[Elrick]

I don't own a Unicomp, but yes, Unicomps are of a lower quality.

Hence why they sell so cheap, even during 2020.

They produce a substandard product in which much earlier versions made decades ago, still demand higher pricing then what they produce today in their factory, so unfortunate.

Would like them to wake up and fix their quality issues but also hoping they would file for Chapter-12 as well and finish them off finally.

It's like watching an old dog with 3 legs limping along slowly near a busy highway, before it tries to cross it unsuccessfully. Sad and completely disgusting.

[fohat]

Everything you are saying is not just wrong but ridiculous.

Unicomp produces a good product and sells it at a fair price.

You would be hard-pressed to compare any consumer product sold today with its counterpart from decades ago and find that it is built to the same quality standard across the board. That is simply not the way of the world, and it is unrealistic to expect it to be so.

[ddrfraser1]

I don't own a Unicomp, but yes, Unicomps are of a lower quality.

Hence why they sell so cheap, even during 2020.

They produce a substandard product in which much earlier versions made decades ago, still demand higher pricing then what they produce today in their factory, so unfortunate.

Would like them to wake up and fix their quality issues but also hoping they would file for Chapter-12 as well and finish them off finally.

It's like watching an old dog with 3 legs limping along slowly near a busy highway, before it tries to cross it unsuccessfully. Sad and completely disgusting.

Um... completely disagree. I love Unicomp. I'm super glad they exist. Yes I have every model M and F made under the sun but Unicomp offers so much for our community. I've bought cables, cases, badges, caps and so many random parts from them that saved me. Besides, they are always doing little things the better their products. They are also a really good entry point for people who want to get into the hobby without spending a ton of money. I hope they continue to grow, succeed and innovate, even if it is at their own pace.

[Redmaus]

Hence why they sell so cheap, even during 2020.

They produce a substandard product in which much earlier versions made decades ago, still demand higher pricing then what they produce today in their factory, so unfortunate.

Would like them to wake up and fix their quality issues but also hoping they would file for Chapter-12 as well and finish them off finally.

It's like watching an old dog with 3 legs limping along slowly near a busy highway, before it tries to cross it unsuccessfully. Sad and completely disgusting.

So much this, I honestly doubt we will ever see the Unicomp SSK... I love the dog metaphor, such an eloquent way of describing the situation

Also if you want to fix your rivets, do a screw mod not a bolt mod. Bolt mods take forever and produce less uniform results than a screw mod. These are the screws you want:
8 Fully Threaded 3.8 1.2 No. 1 60,000 DIN 965 100 91420A004 3.37
https://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/126/3230

[stormcrash]

I would maybe drop Unicomp a message, my two Classics are of similar age and have had zero rivets pop to date, could be a defect with your particular board.

I still don't get the hate for Unicomp by some. Their main business is contracts for industrial keyboards. The minor details of fit and finish on their boards could be better, and in fact they seem to have make huge steps in the last year or two in refreshing tooling, but the typing experience remains excellent. Plus they're just about the only board still made in the USA

Meanwhile boards that cost much more can and do fail much faster. Examples include chattering on KBP Matias boards, that crap Razer Ornata Chyros reviewed, broken backlights etc.

[Elrick]

Um... completely disagree. I love Unicomp. I'm super glad they exist.

We need more people like yourself, if Unicomp can stay alive.

I've bought cables, cases, badges, caps and so many random parts from them that saved me. Besides, they are always doing little things the better their products.

Yes, they at least still provide some spare parts when needed. Although some of the hardcore old style collectors would disagree with you on the quality of these new parts, compared to what they are trying to replace.

They are also a really good entry point for people who want to get into the hobby without spending a ton of money. I hope they continue to grow, succeed and innovate, even if it is at their own pace.

Yeah, for those not wanting to spend huge amounts of money, they are good at providing some mechanical feel in the keyboard realm.

The Quality and Execution of the products is still their Achilles heel, hence why old Model-Ms still retain their higher pricing. If Unicomp delivered a high/better quality product from their factory, than this would no longer be a problem for them.

Hoping that Unicomp would go back and reexamine the OLD IBM Model-Ms and copy them completely with their weight and build, using quality casing with a much thicker back plate, which has gotten thinner over time. Not good for the avid Model-M Lover here.

Everything is within their field of expertise but I have seen the deteriorating build of the latest Model-Ms compared to the originals and there is no comparison, except when it comes to current quality and pricing.

That is why OLD Model-Ms are here to stay and get ever more expensive, I still wonder why?

[stalepie]

I figure the company will go out of business soon enough. Enjoy them while they last.

[gianni]

More than 30 years have passed since the first model M. Knowing this and still thinking that it's a well designed products means to be a little bit blind!

These keyboards should have bolts since their first assembly. It's a layered design that reminds me of the novatouch. Hundreds of screws in that case, no rivets.

[ddrfraser1]

Um... completely disagree. I love Unicomp. I'm super glad they exist.

Yes, they at least still provide some spare parts when needed. Although some of the hardcore old style collectors would disagree with you on the quality of these new parts, compared to what they are trying to replace.

I appreciate your perspective. I’ve actually heard that a rare few components such as the barrel plate are better quality from Unicomp. In any case. I love them even though the quality is a bit less than desired. To be fair, they are not trying to be a premium keyboard manufacturer. How could they make any money? For my part, I hope they remain open. Hell, if they do close I guess we’ll all have to get together and buy them like they did with IBM!

[Dikkus]

People always make a big deal about the back plate getting thinner over time, but other than weight and perhaps sound, I don't see the big deal. Having used every M generation now, I don't really feel a huge difference in key feel at all, from the earliest generation, to the newest. In many cases I would say that the newer generations tend to be smoother than the old generations that I've tried. Actually, my 2019 Unicomp is the smoothest of my Model M's by quite a large margin. Unicomp's case quality is pretty disappointing though, I agree; though I've heard their newest cases are much better and don't creak like hell anymore.

[fohat]

I’ve actually heard that a rare few components such as the barrel plate are better quality from Unicomp.

The thin white latex blankets are also an improvement over the old thick black rubber ones.

[ddrfraser1]

In many cases I would say that the newer generations tend to be smoother than the old generations that I've tried. Actually, my 2019 Unicomp is the smoothest of my Model M's by quite a large margin.

I had a big debate with some folks over on geekhack about this. My silver badge industrial M from 1985 is the silky smoothiest model M or buckling spring for that matter that I own. I enjoy the feel of it even more than my various F including an AT, 122 and 107.

[Dikkus]

In many cases I would say that the newer generations tend to be smoother than the old generations that I've tried. Actually, my 2019 Unicomp is the smoothest of my Model M's by quite a large margin.

I had a big debate with some folks over on geekhack about this. My silver badge industrial M from 1985 is the silky smoothiest model M or buckling spring for that matter that I own. I enjoy the feel of it even more than my various F including an AT, 122 and 107.

Yeah, and I've had some Model F's that were terribly scratchy, for discernibly no reason (they were clean as a whistle). There's a lot of inconsistencies over smoothness, I've noticed. Just so happens that my Unicomp that I own is the smoothest one I've come across so far.

[Elrick]

My silver badge industrial M from 1985 is the silky smoothiest model M or buckling spring for that matter that I own. I enjoy the feel of it even more than my various F including an AT, 122 and 107.

Wouldn't mind paying for a new Unicomp Keyboard IF they increased the thickness of the Backplate, Used thicker sections of plastic for the keyboard casing and of course, provided some more PBT coloured keycaps and colour schemes.

Then I wouldn't mind paying a far higher price tag here, but only concentrating upon the 'price dwellers' won't keep them in business forever.

What would happen if HHKB and Realforce had started cutting corners on quality for their keyboard models?

You would see an exodus of faithful customers no longer wanting to spend their hundreds on buying any of their single keyboards here, if the sole intention was to only grab the 'price-dweller' interest.

Sometimes higher quality costs and there will always be those that are willing to pay for it, if it is indeed showing within any keyboard product.

[fohat]

only concentrating upon the 'price dwellers' won't keep them in business forever.

Did you miss the whole update thing?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24205&p=467958&hili ... it#p467958

Agreed that they don't sell entire color-coordinated sets, but you can get single unit keys in every color of the rainbow.

[sharktastica]

but only concentrating upon the 'price dwellers' won't keep them in business forever.

Even ignoring the funkmon's FAQ from r/ModelM, I'm pretty sure it's been known for a while that Unicomp's main business is selling to other companies, companies that only care if their keyboards type well. Considering that there are GE Model Ms from as early as 2006 out there and they're making new ones for GE clearly shows they can hold a business relationship. Up until recently, enthusiasts were simply a side project. Admittedly, that's no excuse for sloppy work, but now that there is pressure, their legend alignments have sharply improved in the last three years, when they can they've been able to help source old parts for people, and they're clearly serious about the mini Model M now despite delays that they have been transparent about. I've had the fortune of only buying from them within the last 10 months, which included three keyboards and around 350-400 keycaps in sets or individually. Mostly fine quality and only a handful of offenders - they seem to be struggling with ANSI enters and print screen legends at the moment, which amounts to about 10 of the keycaps I've purchased from them (aka, at most, 2.9% of total rounded) and they don't really bother me in the slightest. Not perfect, granted, but I'm far from wanting to hope for their business to go under...

[Elrick]

Not perfect, granted, but I'm far from wanting to hope for their business to go under...

I certainly don't want them to disappear forever.

Hoping at least they start caring about producing quality gear, also waiting for any forthcoming releases from them

That is where they will sink or swim upon it's release, which has to cater to people wanting to jump from their HHKBs over back to Unicomp .

That would be a major miracle for the 21st Century here....

Unfortunately saw their response here;

"It has been talked about and shot down immediately. Unicomp wants to be known for fair prices and cheap, for what they are, keyboards. They are not interested in the premium sector at this time."

Got hit hard by their response. Suspect all those old model IBMs shall indeed continue to escalate in pricing, due to the current company refusing to provide something for the PREMIUM sector .

They prefer being a Three-legged Dog instead .

[gianni]

They care so much that they didn't fix the only obvious and enormous fault with their products. A fault so big that prevents users from cleaning and maintaining their keyboard. Furthermore, for converting from ANSI to ISO I suppose that you need to take apart the keyboard, so in this case is the bolt / screw mod obligatory?

[sharktastica]

Got hit hard by their response. Suspect all those old model IBMs shall indeed continue to escalate in pricing, due to the current company refusing to provide something for the PREMIUM sector .

Agreed on that part.

A fault so big that prevents users from cleaning and maintaining their keyboard. Furthermore, for converting from ANSI to ISO I suppose that you need to take apart the keyboard, so in this case is the bolt / screw mod obligatory?

A factory screw mod would definitely be appreciated.

[fohat]

Furthermore, for converting from ANSI to ISO I suppose that you need to take apart the keyboard,

Contact them directly. I am 95% certain that they would sell you an ISO board.

[gianni]

Furthermore, for converting from ANSI to ISO I suppose that you need to take apart the keyboard,

Contact them directly. I am 95% certain that they would sell you an ISO board.

Yes thank you I didn't know that

[SneakyRobb]

Furthermore, for converting from ANSI to ISO I suppose that you need to take apart the keyboard,

Contact them directly. I am 95% certain that they would sell you an ISO board.

https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/00UE4UPHA

Also I agree with everything you said about unicomp. We should be glad they exist. Happy they exist. Why wish death on a hardworking company.

[Weezer]

I wouldn't wish them death, but I am frustrated by their business decisions because they seem content with treading water/slowly sliding downards. They haven't really innovated the product since they took over from Lexmark and they really haven't updated their offerings outside of cheaper reskins, or going from PS/2 to USB.

[gianni]

Furthermore, for converting from ANSI to ISO I suppose that you need to take apart the keyboard,

Contact them directly. I am 95% certain that they would sell you an ISO board.

https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/00UE4UPHA

Also I agree with everything you said about unicomp. We should be glad they exist. Happy they exist. Why wish death on a hardworking company.

I know that they sell ISO keyboard and always have.