Futaba or modern equivalent

[darkeno]

Im curious: is it still possible to buy Futaba key switches? If not, what would be the modern equivalent?

[Muirium]

Futabas, eh?

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Futaba_switch

I have exactly one of them (from the legendary Mr. Interface's switch sampler) and can't say I'd rate it highly.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

If you mean the sort in the TVI/BBC Micro, then you'd want Cherry MX Black or any similar 60–70 cN linear switch.

The Futaba clicky switch feels like nothing else — I really want to try it out for real, although they're awfully noisy things. Very, very smooth though, but they seem to be a bit fragile. I can't test the pretravel as the insides of mine (also from Mr Interface) have jammed and the contacts are permanently closed. It still clicks, though; from what I've read, they do feel very smooth, so the nice feeling isn't down to it being broken :)

[terrpn]

i have a linear futaba...........extremely smooth, i have been told they are smoother than reds although i myself have yet to try mx red- smoothest board i have to be honest

not really noisy, except for bottoming out

not the best board- plate mounted and decent heft though- double shots

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Depends whether he means one of the numerous linear Futabas, or the clicky ones (of which there are two colours, and apparently the colour may indicate spring strength — hard to tell from Google Translate).

[terrpn]

right..........

i have yet to find or even score a [light] blue one

the one i do have is the white linear (magitronic)

i hear the clicky ones are fairly nice (switch wise), but am not sure about the boards themselves

even though they are not highly sought after- are they not somewhat rare?

[darkeno]

If you mean the sort in the TVI/BBC Micro, then you'd want Cherry MX Black or any similar 60–70 cN linear switch.

I thought the Beebs originally used Futaba's right? So Cherry MX is close enough?

As far as the noise goes, the old Beeb keyboard are not too bad, for me they are one of the best keyboards Ive played on.

[Muirium]

Just pulled out my Futaba switch to investigate. It's a clicky white one.

It feels like a light, super quiet buckling spring on the way down. Just a little "tick" sound most of the way to bottom. So far so good. You definitely feel the snap. But the upstroke! There's a weird metallic ping that really dominates the experience. That's where the sound is. Just like Daniel said about clicky BBC's having a delayed typing sense to them. The noise is all after the key press.

Anyway, huge difference between this and a linear switch. Do your memories of BBCs include lots of clicky pinging from the keyboards? If so: clicky futaba. If not: linear switches. For what it's worth I only recall quiet one's myself. (Noise from bottoming out but none in the travel itself.) Including one I briefly typed on in a museum a month ago.

As for Cherry comparisons: my Futaba here is about half the volume as my MX blues and greens! Definitely louder than MX white. Compared to clicky and tactile MX versions it's a very different feel. More linear, with a nice tight trip instead of the big block my fingers tell me lives inside MX. Reminds me a bit of buckling spring, which I'm sure it was designed to do. It's pretty good, but a pale comparison to the real thing. Not the switch for me, but it does have character. Not least in that strange old sound.

(Wasn't there a video of a keyboard full of these posted a while ago?)

[terrpn]

good write up........

[Daniel Beardsmore]

OK … one more try :) BBC Micros (models A and B) used simplified linear Futabas, linear SMKs, and PEDs (which I imagine are linear, too). The delay sound on the BBC Micro comes from the fact that bottoming out a linear Futaba is virtually silent, so all you hear is the sound of the slider "topping out" — a clack sound when the slider comes to a stop after the key is released (this is the sound that Topre silent switches cut out).

Cherry MX black is the closest switch on sale now to the old linear switches of the 80s.

The video of Futaba clicky switches:

Clicky Futabas aren't all that rare, but I've never seen anyone here sell one.

[darkeno]

Unless my memory is failing, the Beeb micros didn't make that "pinging" sound like in the video.

[darkeno]

At about 4:40 into this video they talk about the keyboard a tiny bit:

[terrpn]

that was pretty wild.........never seen one click on the way back up

[Muirium]

Behold the pingy glory! It's like popping bubblewrap … made of aluminium.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Unless my memory is failing, the Beeb micros didn't make that "pinging" sound like in the video.

Wha ....................?

*cries*

[Halvar]

Sorry Daniel, just found this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/anachrocom ... 485183229/

[Daniel Beardsmore]

There already are photos of the BBC Micro Type 1 keyboard (Futaba simplified linear) on the wiki …

[Muirium]

On first glance, I thought this might be a Futaba:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151065569401

But it's actually "Maxi-Switch" like this "Tandon Me 101":
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Tandon_Me_101

I've heard of Maxi Switch the company, but the Wiki only mentions the switch in passing. What's it like?

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Wait, are those keys not stabilised? Ow. I have enough trouble with unstabilised 1.5 unit keys on Alps and SMK!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Talking about Maxi Switch, I just found this:

http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum ... -to-fix-it

Uh oh … The switch depicted is reported to be from a Maxi Switch–made TRS-80 Model 4 keyboard. Notice the green dome (Alps domes are all grey), and how the shell more closely resembles the vintage SMK-style switches that Maxi Switch made? Were Maxi Switch sent to this earth just to cause pointless confusion?

Incredibly, I've been able to bring up the author's homepage straight from the forum; I shall see if he can shed any more light on this latest Maxi Switch deviation.

[Halvar]

I guess this must have been one of the most expensive shitty switches ever ... A whole keyboard made of single switch modules with simple conductive rubber dome membranes? Seriously?

The problem that the thread is about is exactly what you'd expect to happen, isn't it? I had that happen to me on calculators after two years of usage or sooner...

[Daniel Beardsmore]

What, those discrete dome switches in the TRS-80? The Alps ones I had (that Muirium now has) are surprisingly decent. They're top quality domes, very crisp and tactile — far better than Alps's lousy attempts at mechanical tactile switches. Given the metallic sound, I was quite surprised to open a switch and find a dome inside (I was really curious what Alps had put inside). Whether Maxi's are any good, I have no idea.

(PS [wiki]Membrane vs rubber dome[/wiki] ;-)

[Muirium]

Indeed. The Zenith's not too shabby, for a dome. Nice and light.

There is hope!

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Halvar does have a good point about the longevity of the carbon layer — that does fade with time. I never thought about that before.

I had a really nice beige Dell dome keyboard with conductive domes, and I was having to clean the carbon pads and membrane (?) with increasing frequency until I accidentally took out part of the matrix (and at the time I had no idea what I had done that could possibly cause a whole block of keys to die at once). I was sad — that was the best keyboard I'd had in years. I also had a work keyboard with conductive domes that also suffered from dome fade.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Sheez …

http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~hisao/image/ricohten.htm

Another one.

[webwit]

Is that Alps switch in the wiki yet? Otherwise I'd be disappointed, Beardsmore.

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Which, the one I linked to above? Yes, as is his Hirose Cherry M8 photo (Hirose made the not-quite-the-same-shape M8 switches).

As is (albeit not illustrated — no reply from the guy who posted it) Maxi Switch's clone of the Alps integrated dome switch. (Unlike with SMK/NEC/Maxi, in this case the switch is distinctly different from Alps's design, but seemingly compatible.)

The one thing that is not up, as a consequence, is my fresh batch of Futaba photos. Such a cute little switch, too bad that they had poor reliability.

[terrpn]

so i finally scored another futaba board. a packard bell that has the clicky futaba to go along with my linear futaba.

you guys are right..........the click happens on the way up vs the action down- talk about different.

really i do not notice any ping though as another post suggested, this is really one heavy board.

very light click- i agree with a previous post in that it is lighter than mx blues, but it does bottom out and clank kind of hard.

nice double shots though and nice hefty "old school" board which of course i love

[Daniel Beardsmore]

Something I never asked — what linear Futaba do you have, anyway? Got any photos of the switch?

[terrpn]

Something I never asked — what linear Futaba do you have, anyway? Got any photos of the switch?

well its i think a magictronic board

let me grab and take a potato picture