What does the future hold for Topre-switch keyboards?

[Hypersphere]

Apart from the Type Heaven, Topre has not introduced a new product in years, and its existing product lines have not been updated. Topre-switch keyboards are becoming increasingly difficult to find, and some product lines, such as the Leopold FC660C are no longer being carried by Elitekeyboards (EK), the former sole distributor in the US. PFU is apparently still producing the HHKB Pro 2, but they are dependent upon Topre for switches, and this product line, like Topre's Realforce, has not been refreshed in years.

Keycaps have been notoriously difficult to find for Topre-switch keyboards, and replacement sets for the Realforce line are no longer being sold by EK; only HHKB sets are still listed.

CM finally launched their Novatouch this year with its hybrid Topre switches equipped with Cherry mx-compatible stems, but this product was arguably not of the same calibre as Realforce or PFU's HHKB Pro 2. Time will tell if this product will be an economic success for CM.

Meanwhile, Chinese copies of hybrid Topre switches with mx-compatible stems have appeared, but these also appear to fall short of the quality found in genuine Topre products.

These signs of apparent stagnation and decline would seem to indicate that bonafide Topre-switch keyboards might not be long for this world.

Does anyone here have any insights into what is happening at Topre? Will these great keyboards soon become vintage-only, like the IBM beam spring, Model F, and Model M? If this should happen, will we be left with Cherry mx as the chief contemporary mechanical keyboard?

[Madhias]

It would be interesting to know how big the part of the electronics division is in the Topre corporation, and if keyboards are like a poor cousin of the other business divisions they have. I'm wondering if our Toyota has some Topre parts! I think Keyboards are in the "Others" category, so it's not that much in general:

At least the whole company grows constantly:

[Madhias]

By the way, these graphs remind me of some funny blog post from Monkey Island creator Ron Gilbert, also knows as the grumpy gamer.

[cookie]

I personally don't think that topre keyboards will become "vintage" anytime soon. And there are several reasons why I believe this.

They are availabe and you can get them quite easily, there are a lot of sellers on ebay who will ship for free and declare a different price so that you don't have to pay tax. You can also use a proxy service like tenso.com to import them directly from Japan. Stock caps are also available, a bit expensive but they absolutely worth the money! Custom keycaps are a whole different storry, if you wan't to highly customize your keyboard better stick with a cherry board. But it seems that SP will produce caps for topre stems next year, this could start a new era of custom topre caps!
Also if you follow realforce on facebook, you can see updates quite frequently, this is a good sign I'd say.
Lastly, they have a unique switch and no competitors in this premium segment! And I don't concider the Novatouch as a competitor, not in the current state. Neither are the Noppoo counterfeit close to what I concider a real Topre.

The best thing you can do is to throw your money at them so they can keep the business running

[Muirium]

there are a lot of sellers on ebay who will ship for free and declare a different price so that you don't have to pay tax.

Got some links for this guy?

http://deskthority.net/keyboards-f2/not ... ml#p191632

I couldn't find any either.

[matt3o]

currently my preferred JP seller has no listing on ebay

[cookie]

I bought my HHKB from this seller here: http://www.ebay.de/usr/ibuyjp?_trksid=p ... 2749.l2754
The communication was flawless and quick!

[Muirium]

Thanks. Passed it on.

@Hyper: Topre isn't standing still. The NovaTouch is just as much their work as CM's:



As its controller is so small, I very much expect to see a new line of Realforces with smaller, more modern enclosures sometime in the next few years. Fingers crossed they're smart enough to go Bluetooth. Notably, Filco went BT with the Minila Air last year, but despite my expectation of a MajesTouch 3 BT in the works, they have released nothing new the whole yaer since! Similarly, you might just be looking at these manufacturers with an unrealistic timeframe.

Also: my understanding is that the HHKB is in fact entirely manufactured by Topre, as the OEM for PFU/Fujitsu. The business model of selling individual switches to other manufacturers is for Cherry (and formerly Alps etc.), while Topre plays more by the IBM book. This makes a lot of sense given how Topre switches aren't actually discrete components either.

[ماء]

yeah i ever heard topre switch construction inspired BS

[Hypersphere]

Some might argue that the NT wasn't Topre standing still but taking a step backward.

For what it's worth, in a recent inquiry about possible customization options for RF boards, EK was not sanguine about future prospects for Topre keyboards, but the reasons are not clear.

I certainly hope I am wrong about this. In my quest for the perfect keyboard during the past couple of years, I have tried just about every form factor, layout, keycap type, switch type, and manufacturer. Out of all these, my all-time favorites are Topre-switch boards: RF 87ub 45g, RF 87ub 55g, and HHKB Pro 2.

Of course, it is a distinct advantage to have one's favorite keyboards still being manufactured, and so I hope this will continue.

My runners-up are vintage IBM keyboards: beam spring, Model F, and Model M.

If the keyboard division of Topre is in fact flourishing and if they intend to introduce new products, I hope they do not undo their past greatness and that they will continue to offer standard options along with some newer ones. For example, BT could be fine for some, but I would hope that a standard wired option would still be available.

The main hope I would have for Topre is to maintain the excellent quality of its components along with the splendid orchestration of these components into an organic whole where everything works harmoniously.

[mtl]

Apart from the Type Heaven, Topre has not introduced a new product in years

What about Type-S and HiPro? Those may have been released over a year ago but they are relatively new developments.

[Hypersphere]

At least the present looks good for US buyers of Topre-switch keyboards or others for whom buying online from a US vendor is not prohibitively expensive. EK currently has the entire HHKB line on sale, and some of the RF prices look quite favorable.

For most states in the US, there is no sales tax on items purchased online from a vendor based in a different state. EK is located in California and I am not, so I pay no sales tax for their items.

[Hypersphere]

Apart from the Type Heaven, Topre has not introduced a new product in years

What about Type-S and HiPro? Those may have been released over a year ago but they are relatively new developments.

Good point. I am not sure about the chronology of these products. Another important thing to consider is the economic success of new ventures. If they have not made money on new products, this does not bode well for the future. Even if the parent Topre corporation is doing well, it is possible that their keyboard division is not.

[Muirium]

Wikipedia has a good timeline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Hac ... s_by_model

Type-S versions of the HHKB (both Pro 2 and Pro JP) were the most recent additions to the line, in 2011. Most years nothing happens anyway.

I'll just point out the obvious, for those of us outside America: EK ≠ Topre. The way EK dumped Leopold just recently — a manufacturer very much still alive and well — may be a sign of what's to come, regards EK and Topre. I expect matters of commission and exclusivity are what matter there instead.

[cooldiscretion]

It would be nice to see an HHKB with the Hi Profile keys or even a TKL.

[Muirium]

Indeed. I have a high profile SA set on my NovaTouch right now, and I can easily imagine what a TKL HiPro would be like. In cream, please!

[Madhias]

But in general i do think that the Topre business man don't care that much of their keyboards, but more of their automotive parts and other much more lucrative business divisions. So i do think that great innovations will not happen, but just small adjustments like silenced versions, or similar.

The best thing you can do is to throw your money at them so they can keep the business running

I thought of were to get about 20 full-sized ISO German Topre keyboards for work (not for £160.00), that every composing operator at our company has a good keyboard and not a DELL rubberdome. We even bought some ergonomic mice in the past for about € 80, so why not a keyboard too?

[002]

All I can say is that Topre have not given up on their keyboards just yet
Hang in there, guys.

Even *if* Realforce were dumped, Topre would likely still continue to be the OEM for keyboards in B to B dealings in Japan. They've been making capacitive keyboards for over 30 years now.

[Muirium]

Yup. And all the OEM work they're doing with Leopold and CM these days is a good sign. Stagnation is what happens when you don't try anything new. We just live in forum time, instead of industrial time, so progress looks agonisingly slow to us. But it's going on, behind closed doors.

[cookie]

If you are worried, do it like me and pile up some HHKBs

[Hypersphere]

If you are worried, do it like me and pile up some HHKBs

Indeed, I am starting to populate the shelves in my tornado/fallout shelter with HHKBs and RFs. I was considering using IBM Model F 107s for shielding; steel is 2.5x less effective than lead (Pb), but much better than concrete.