deskthority

Thought I'd post a photo of my F122 w/ bonus cat. I don't have a use for all my keys yet so there are a few blanks. The ones I have added a legend for so far have used the template from @Cyber_engineer -- super handy.

I'd love to hear advice from folks on a few things I've been dealing with. The main one is that pressing "x" or "." bumps the space stabilizer a little, which causes the spacebar to rattle -- making the experience unpleasant. Is there any way to adjust (bend?) it so it clears freely and doesn't interfere with those keys at all?

Second issue is that I've not been able to find a setting or hardware arrangement for my solenoid that makes a nice subtle haptic "tak" -- it's more like a loud typewriter, even with settings that barely get the solenoid to fire at all. Am I doing something wrong or were my expectations just not reasonable?

The solenoid should work by default without any configuration or keypress combinations. I recommend erasing the eeprom in the leyden jar tool and reflashing the firmware. Since the solenoid is able to fire, it may be an issue with your USB port (not enough power, USB hub, etc.). I recommend trying another port, another computer, and maybe trying your other Model F keyboard if all else doesn't work.

With permission I am sharing the first photo of the Hebrew English key set on the new F122!

There are a couple dozen available key sets and it is nice to see photos of some of the rarer key sets.
thrillscience kindly see my replies below:

1. The issue is "the horizontal gap because the bottom plate hasn't been slid over enough" because the plates may not line up properly and could be more likely to separate. The plates should be able to slide so that they cannot travel any more and the sides of the tabs of the TIA make contact with the BIA cut out areas.

2. Yes, I'd like to take a photo one of these days showing the clamps, but feel free to search for "F122 model f clamps" to see how these larger keyboards are put together. It takes a few minutes with the right tools, or an hour otherwise! Some of the clamps should be inserted so that they are compressing the area between the function keys and top row of numbered keys, so that those TIA tabs rise enough above the BIA to clear it and allow the plates to slide together.



ms264556 the recommendation is to print out the templates on paper and cut out each one to fit the key. That way the legends can all have the same paper color, the key stem is no longer visible after the template is installed, and one can change the legend in the future. Unicomp provided the stems (they are regular Model M stems for two-piece keys) and noted that they are all assorted colors; no way to have all the same color.

Ellipse wrote: 23 May 2025, 09:17 resonator, did you replace them with caps and barrels from the same batch or from a different shipment from years before or after the originals? Have you been using the board for many months without issue after replacing the barrels and keys? Can you try the reported scratchy keys and barrels outside of the keyboard to see if they are the same, and see if you can notice anything different with them? Could it be an issue of tolerances (maybe the key stem was a little too wide and/or the barrel interior was a little too small - you may need a micrometer or caliper to determine this accurately)? Do you see evidence of excess flashing or wear on the keys or barrels?

I bought a few more barrels with the replacement keycaps about a year after I received my keyboard. The newer barrels went into my first-aid kit and got mixed up with the barrels I already had. I can't say whether I replaced the barrels from the scratchy keys with newer or older barrels.

I did buy another delete key (1.5u above enter) with an alternative legend when I got the replacement caps, but I didn't end up using it because it was scratchy and my original wasn't.

I've been using the replacement keys since about January. They're all still buttery smooth.

Wear can be seen in the barrels and on the stems of the scratchy parts. I'm happy to send them to you to examine if you like. There are four of each. I didn't record which stem was used with which barrel but it shouldn't be hard to find a scratchy combination. Send me an email or PM with your postage details if you're interested.

Thanks for sharing photos of your modded F122 Ordinary Witch!

I like the terminal-style customizations that remind me of the F122 originals.

Can folks please share what they do with the custom keys in Vial? To give people ideas on the possibilities. Are they macros? Key combinations? Do they open specific programs?

F77E39 I can confirm that the two issues were discussed over the years. Regarding paint loss, this is disclosed on the project web site as you mentioned, and the paint formulation changed years ago to a tougher powdercoating with no reports of premature wear (the oldest keyboards with this new powdercoating were the compact F77 and compact F62 keyboards that were powdercoated and die cast instead of CNC milled and anodized; the new cases started shipping in early 2022). In summary every keyboard besides the two originals does not have this issue because the issue was due to the old style paint used on all the original style zinc cases; once current stock is depleted that powdercoating will no longer be available, but it is the only option if you want one of the original project boards. It is not an issue related to a possibly defective batch as there are far more reports of keyboards from that batch in perfect paint condition after years of daily usage.

Regarding a few reports of scratchiness:

For those few folks reporting scratchy keys please do some more research to see what is the matter or what some possible fixes may be (see the links below). Out of thousands of boards shipped since 2019 this issue has only been reported by a handful of people and only on the DT forum, so I am inclined to believe that this is more of people noticing differences compared to their other keyboards, which may be described as having a smoother feel, whether IBM or not.

I just went back in my emails to see previous discussions. In two of the earliest discussions, folks reported scratchiness with off-center pressing in an original IBM XT Model F keyboard, and it persisted with one example even after a thorough restoration including ultrasonic cleaning of the parts. Otherwise I can't find any reports of new production 1U keys being scratchy outside of the several reports here.

I see a few discussions of scratchiness in original IBM Model M and Model F keyboards (linked below), including some mod attempts that folks have tried, revolving around removing excess flashing. I don't see excess flashing on the new production keys but maybe trimming parts of the stem like the very bottom edge of the keycap or the semicircular area may help with original keys. Are these keys a fraction of a mm too tall and it is touching the PCB when pressed? According to one DT member in 2014: "The other thing to check for - is the bottom lips of the stem don't have any flash on them. I ran into this a couple times with new stems from Unicomp - where a little bit of flash would rub against the spring making it feel scratchy. Quick work with a razor can clean this up."

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I don't know what the current status of that is from those who have been doing tests. There was some discussion of using a dremel to remove a mold parting line inside the barrel, but I am not sure if that fixed the issue that a few folks reported.

resonator, did you replace them with caps and barrels from the same batch or from a different shipment from years before or after the originals? Have you been using the board for many months without issue after replacing the barrels and keys? Can you try the reported scratchy keys and barrels outside of the keyboard to see if they are the same, and see if you can notice anything different with them? Could it be an issue of tolerances (maybe the key stem was a little too wide and/or the barrel interior was a little too small - you may need a micrometer or caliper to determine this accurately)? Do you see evidence of excess flashing or wear on the keys or barrels?

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share my experience with the Model F Labs F77, which I received less than a year ago. Typing feel has been great, one of my favourite boards overall.

However, two issues have emerged that I believe are worth surfacing, particularly for anyone considering this board or already owning it:

1. Premature Paint Wear
The powder-coated finish began noticeably wearing through on the front edge where my right palm rests in under a year of ownership. It has now become a major eyesore. The paint where the left palm rests seems fine and has a different consistency.
I reached out to Joe (Ellipse), who acknowledged it but pointed to the ToS, stating that cosmetic wear is expected and not covered. While I understand the need for terms, this level of wear on a premium board, one marketed for its heirloom-level quality felt excessive. The current disclosure doesn’t reflect the severity or real-world visibility of this issue, a phrase like “paint wear” can imply minor patina or dings, not bare metal exposure within 6–9 months, or a coating so brittle it flakes under light palm contact from day one. I think one of two things should've happened upfront:
If the wear is expected, this should've been more clearly communicated with photos and a strong recommendation to clear coat.
If it's not typical, then the handful of users who get unlucky with a fragile finish should be offered a clean solution.

Community question: Has anyone here refinished their zinc F77 case, used touch-up paint, or proactively clear-coated it? I'd love specific brand/method suggestions.

2. Off-Center Key Scratchiness
Some keys feel noticeably scratchy when pressed off-center. Center presses are fine, but there's a distinct plastic on plastic friction and binding on off angle input.

Is this typical for Model F reproductions? If so, is there any known way to improve it? I've seen references to cleaning and relubing vintage boards, but I'd appreciate any proven approaches specific to these modern reproductions.

Despite these two pain points, I'm still impressed with the typing feel and general build of the board. But the paint wear has been a major eyesore, and the scratchiness slightly detracts from the otherwise stellar tactile response.
Appreciate any advice from others who’ve faced similar issues or found solid solutions.

Ellipse wrote: 12 May 2025, 21:32 Important F122 Leyden Jar firmware update to fix phantom key press issue for some keyboards, and other replies:

Nice customization tinydarkness! I like the use of Industrial SSK and terminal keys.

Confirmed, tracking emails are sent as soon as I have the tracking information.

Wow that is fast! Usually they are not that fast!

With permission I am sharing another nice customized F122.

Mopar Blue set F122 - Copy.jpeg



When you have a moment, everyone please test the updated F122 firmware and let me know if there are any issues.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... _05_10.zip

Rico is working on a new firmware update that will fix a few other small requests too, but I recommend updating to the above firmware if you have any issues with the debounce/with phantom key presses. The above link will no longer work and the file will be deleted after the update is made and added to the regular QMK-layout-files.zip file in the manual, where the various firmware files are all located.

The debounce was not working at all on the original firmware because the debounce time in was set too low for the higher number of bins used in the default firmware (more bins requires a few thousandths of a second more debounce time). More details are below if you are interested.


You have to manually set the debounce time as it is a constant. Setting this time too low results in debounce not running at all, so a setting of 10 ms is recommended as an initial test. Rico notes "What needs to be done for the F122 keyboard is to increase debouncing time so that it is higher than the matrix scan time + additional qmk logic. Total latency is approximately max(debounce_time, matrix_scanning_time) + qmk logic. This means that if the matrix scanning takes more time than the debounce time, no debouncing will be done. With 6 bins we have ~4.3ms scanning time, this is not a huge number. Sure QMK USB polling rate take an additional 1ms and debouncing takes 5ms on top of that, we still end at ~10ms latency which is more than adequate for normal typing sessions and casual gaming (below this value only the very best players can see the difference, and they are more probably inclined to use a hall effect gaming keyboard). To reduce latencies maybe it would be easier to reduce the debouncing values (and check that it does not introduce double press issues), or even better select another debouncing algorithm (there is one that introduces no delay when detecting key presses, only one when detecting key releases). To change the debounce time, the following line has to be added in the info.json file of the f122 board:"
"debounce": 10

The only downside to longer debounce times is a couple thousandths of a second additional input delay. Many mechanical keyboards are about 10ms anyways, about the same as Leyden Jar-powered keyboards.

I flashed the new firmware and have continued using the keyboard as normal. No issues with anything firmware related that I can see thus far.

Important F122 Leyden Jar firmware update to fix phantom key press issue for some keyboards, and other replies:

Nice customization tinydarkness! I like the use of Industrial SSK and terminal keys.

Confirmed, tracking emails are sent as soon as I have the tracking information.

Wow that is fast! Usually they are not that fast!

With permission I am sharing another nice customized F122.


When you have a moment, everyone please test the updated F122 firmware and let me know if there are any issues.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... _05_10.zip

Rico is working on a new firmware update that will fix a few other small requests too, but I recommend updating to the above firmware if you have any issues with the debounce/with phantom key presses. The above link will no longer work and the file will be deleted after the update is made and added to the regular QMK-layout-files.zip file in the manual, where the various firmware files are all located.

The debounce was not working at all on the original firmware because the debounce time in was set too low for the higher number of bins used in the default firmware (more bins requires a few thousandths of a second more debounce time). More details are below if you are interested.


You have to manually set the debounce time as it is a constant. Setting this time too low results in debounce not running at all, so a setting of 10 ms is recommended as an initial test. Rico notes "What needs to be done for the F122 keyboard is to increase debouncing time so that it is higher than the matrix scan time + additional qmk logic. Total latency is approximately max(debounce_time, matrix_scanning_time) + qmk logic. This means that if the matrix scanning takes more time than the debounce time, no debouncing will be done. With 6 bins we have ~4.3ms scanning time, this is not a huge number. Sure QMK USB polling rate take an additional 1ms and debouncing takes 5ms on top of that, we still end at ~10ms latency which is more than adequate for normal typing sessions and casual gaming (below this value only the very best players can see the difference, and they are more probably inclined to use a hall effect gaming keyboard). To reduce latencies maybe it would be easier to reduce the debouncing values (and check that it does not introduce double press issues), or even better select another debouncing algorithm (there is one that introduces no delay when detecting key presses, only one when detecting key releases). To change the debounce time, the following line has to be added in the info.json file of the f122 board:"
"debounce": 10

The only downside to longer debounce times is a couple thousandths of a second additional input delay. Many mechanical keyboards are about 10ms anyways, about the same as Leyden Jar-powered keyboards.

With permission I am sharing the second user image of the new F122 keyboards! This one includes some interesting keys from Unicomp, with legends I have not seen before.
Regarding the powdercoating, since folks from various years have noted their keyboards were perfect after years of daily usage and others noting issues after a year or less from the same batches as those other folks, I do not think that the issue has to do with being in the earlier or later production batch but more to do with the type of powdercoating used in these batches being not up to modern levels of durability. As I noted before, the powdercoated compact case keyboards (that started shipping years ago) as well as all subsequent powdercoated models all use the modern style tougher powdercoating that does not seem to wear over time. Another possibility could be travel distance, international handling, package travel by airplane, etc. as in general a good proportion of the reports of powdercoating quality have been from folks whose keyboards have traveled halfway around the globe by air (all keyboards of course traveled around the globe by sea to me). I don't think we will ever know for sure and this powdercoating won't be used again for any projects so it should not be a concern for all models besides the original classic style F62/F77.

F122 update:

I am working on the first batch of F122 orders, with priority towards the low/custom serials (it is still OK to add a custom/low serial upgrade to your F122). I want to make sure everything is good so as to avoid the need for folks to do a firmware update. There are about 150 boards to go out. This process only started recently; it did not start as soon as the keyboards arrived last month. The goal was to get out that shipment out of China as quickly as possible (even if I was not ready to ship them soon after they were expected to arrive), and the shipment ended up leaving the port only days before the first tariffs went into effect.

As always for each board I do the final QC, including making sure each key pad registers in the signal level monitor. In addition to creating the entire Leyden Jar controller hardware, firmware, and diagnostic utility (!), Rico has been very helpful in fine-tuning the firmware for the production units. Extra attention needs to be paid to the calibration bins and the threshold offset values, so I've been trying various firmwares that vary these settings so I can put the best one on the boards.

As mentioned in the prior F122 update, some boards are in the first batch that arrived several weeks ago, while others are in the future batch that the factory is working to complete this month (they had to remake a small number of individual parts that were damaged or defective - I've asked them to make extras for future orders so that we won't have to wait to remake parts to complete a current order). I won't be confirming everyone's order to see which batch they are in as my focus is to get these orders out as quickly as possible. The low serial upgrades are definitely appreciated to help cover project cost overruns, but it doesn't mean your board is prioritized during factory production; it means that your board is prioritized for shipping once it is in stock. The factory makes these keyboards by variation number, doing all boards of a particular variation at one time; they did not do 50% of each variation or prioritize making just the keyboards that were already ordered as that is not a feasible production process. Currently there are several hundred variations of the Model F keyboards that the factory has made.

It's always slower for a new product as I physically set up and test a sample of the first keyboards going out, with different variations (this does not mean that all the single digit serials get set up, for example). This is a slow process. I do a good amount of testing to measure the signal output of each key, as well as doing typing tests. I am definitely taking my time with extra caution for the F122's since this is the very first Leyden Jar RP2040 powered keyboards.

I mentioned an update about the tariffs earlier this month (see that post a bit earlier in this thread for details). Currently they have no effect on the project, as nothing has shipped in the past few weeks since they went into effect. As mentioned earlier, the current tariff rate for the HTS number 8471 containing keyboards was temporarily lowered to 20% on the production cost, which is not something that would cause an insurmountable issue if it were to remain in place.

Currently this is not an available option but something I might consider, in addition to the other strategies noted before, is to allow folks in the second batch to switch their keyboard to an in stock variation, after all the keyboards from the current batch have shipped. Please do not email me asking to switch now as I don't know which keyboards will be available until I've tested and mailed out the first batch.

If you are not picky with the case colors, please order a color other than Off-White/Beige or Industrial Gray. Those colors were more popular than expected and I want to make sure some are still available in the future for those who are not flexible.

Ellipse wrote: 08 Apr 2025, 04:46 Yes, as I mentioned over email, it is expected that the uncoated original style paint will wear where it is rubbed during contact. To keep the project's goal as a reproduction of the IBM originals, the paint has no glossy automotive style protective finish.

Several years ago I changed the paint formulation for a less historically styled, tougher modern powdercoating which currently has an excellent track record of little to no wear (this formulation was first used on the die cast compact case F62/F77 cases, while the very first production run from 2019 used anodized cases for the compact cases). The original F62/F77 project's remaining keyboards were not discarded and will probably sell out over the coming months.

We discussed your issue with some keys having chipped stems at the bottom and those keys being the ones that required more careful on-center pressing - I don't think you caught all of them from the originally damaged batch but I noted that I am happy to replace the broken keys with the order you were placing. Broken keys should not be used.

Why not switch all the keys from one keyboard to the other to see if what you call the scratchy keys are due to the keycaps or due to the barrels? I suggest using them for a month or so before evaluating.

Thanks for the info! I'll make sure to order the spare keys!
Is there a way to know whether which paint formulation my keyboards are using?
I made an earlier post about it, it seems the texture of my paint coatings is vastly different between the two keyboards:

The upper is my "old" keyboard (serial number 6xx) and the lower one is the new (serial number 9xx).


Switching the keys is a good idea. Only problem is that the keyboards are 800km apart from each other (using them in two different locations).

Yes, as I mentioned over email, it is expected that the uncoated original style paint will wear where it is rubbed during contact. To keep the project's goal as a reproduction of the IBM originals, the paint has no glossy automotive style protective finish.

Several years ago I changed the paint formulation for a less historically styled, tougher modern powdercoating which currently has an excellent track record of little to no wear (this formulation was first used on the die cast compact case F62/F77 cases, while the very first production run from 2019 used anodized cases for the compact cases). The original F62/F77 project's remaining keyboards were not discarded and will probably sell out over the coming months.

We discussed your issue with some keys having chipped stems at the bottom and those keys being the ones that required more careful on-center pressing - I don't think you caught all of them from the originally damaged batch but I noted that I am happy to replace the broken keys with the order you were placing. Broken keys should not be used.

Why not switch all the keys from one keyboard to the other to see if what you call the scratchy keys are due to the keycaps or due to the barrels? I suggest using them for a month or so before evaluating.

Or maybe you could put your own money into researching your own products issue ellipse instead of asking people to reach out to engineer contacts lmfao. Quit expecting people to work for free for you, only to spit back in their face when they ask you for product specs.

Rico this is great news! The eventual goal is to have all new and original Model F keyboards supported by the Leyden Jar controller.

If anyone has any ideas to discuss about regarding the next keyboards (ortholinear / planck / split ortho / etc.) please do share them! What would be feasible to add or update?

Everyone please do keep up this discussion; maybe it would be best if folks could ask around their materials science / engineer contacts to see what else could be looked into.

Volkovich_ paint wear has been reported on zinc cases and has been discussed for the past few years, though it seems to affect certain folks more than others.

Years ago the powdercoating paint formulation was changed for all other cases (compact F62/F77, Model M style cases, beam spring cases) to make it more modern-looking and less of the old style texture. Paint wear over time has not been reported as a widespread issue on these other cases with the newer formulation.

The F104 keys should be from the same batch that I mailed you in 2022, so there should be no difference in what you are reporting. Maybe try swapping a "scratchy" key from your new board to the old keyboard and swap the old key from your old keyboard to your new F104 and let us know the result. The barrels and springs are the same type of material as well.

Maybe it is just that the springs and other parts have loosened or become smoother in your older keyboard after many years of usage.

There is a large section in the recently updated manual on how to adjust the spacebar to increase or reduce the force, including bending the stabilizer wire away from or closer to the metal tabs, adjusting the metal tabs themselves, and replacing or reinstalling the spring.

mbarszcz from what you are reporting, it does not appear to be an issue with a particular keycap mold cavity. The barrels also have cavities but that would require opening the inner assembly to confirm.

It is still not clear why scratchiness has been reported only in recent months while the keycaps were almost all made years ago and the barrel plastic is the same. I thought it could be an issue with keycap mold wear but the issue is being reported with various keycap molds. Could it be an issue with barrel mold wear?

YALE70 are you trimming the top of the barrel or the entire length inside the barrel, where the key stem makes contact? If the mold has worn a bit, it would make the inside area of the barrel slightly smaller which may increase friction (I have reported this possibility to the factory for analysis).

Yes, everyone feel free to sign the interest forms below:

Pad print interest form: https://forms.gle/qvX4pR27a9Sr7fSN6

Interest form for PC AT big enter, ISO enter non-stepped, and Code key: https://forms.gle/XNmsgnwKfbwYMfci8

As a reminder, I had to cancel factory work on both these items in the past couple years due to subpar quality (see prior forum and blog postings for details); I hope to resume work later this year with new factories.

This discussion is quite puzzling to me since only the same 2 or 3 folks are noticing this even though the same exact batch of materials and produced parts has been used for years on thousands of keyboards. The constant feedback I receive from folks who have used these keyboards for years says the keyboard is great and no one is saying the keyboard became scratchy after using it. If it was a bad batch, one would think that more than 3 folks would notice and that people would not start noticing only years after this same parts batch started shipping, even though it is reported to become noticeable just after a month of usage?

If this were a widespread issue wouldn't I be receiving dozens and dozens of reports over email? Even with thousands of boards out there, I have received so far 0 emails about what you are reporting with keys becoming scratchy after a while, from what I can see checking my email just now.

Another interesting idea is for me to send you a scrap original production pearl/pebble first batch key set with alignment and other issues (and missing keys) or an unprinted pearl/pebble key set. The unprinted pearl/pebble sets are all still from the first batch. This way we can see if something changed with the 2022 batch, even though it's the same material.

Also, someone else suggested trying XT barrels (you'd have to cut off their pin registration post). I have a few I could send for testing. That would possibly rule out the new barrels.

For those reporting this, are your findings more prominent with a particular key size, mold cavity number, or key color? Maybe we can narrow down what you are saying a bit. As I mentioned before, the US pearl/pebble keys are just about all the same batch made years ago, same type of plastic. Same with the barrels being the same type of plastic. Also please send photos of the worn barrels.

Yes, I would definitely appreciate receiving back those parts so that I can compare them to other parts, and I'd be happy to exchange them by mailing replacements with someone's next order (just add an order note so I don't forget!).

It is not as if it affects only a certain recent batch made last year for example. As I mentioned before, the US pearl/pebble keys are just about all the same batch, same type of plastic. Same with the barrels being the same type of plastic.

The only hangup I have now is that I don't want to dismantle this thing 15 times, I am in an all-or-nothing mood. The debate is whether I leave near-to-original finish or see if I have something I could use to polish it a bit. They weren't exactly pretty to begin with but if the surface gets taken down too much that is going to add wobble.

As for as molds go, is it possible there is a tooling lifespan issue? Or have there not been enough produced for that? It looks a whole lot like the casting line where the two halves meet, but I am not an injection molding guy and I don't know what I am talking about.

I guess I did contradict myself between the two posts. It all depends on the situation I suppose. What I'm trying to say is if the scratchy feeling is going to follow anything, it seems to follow the stems once they are damaged. Once a stem is scratchy, it seems to be scratchy in its original barrel, always. Moving it to another barrel is SOMETIMES scratchy, sometimes not. Moving a "fresh" stem into a previously scratchy barrel never seems to be scratchy. (after I wrote the rest of this post, it makes even more sense).

I'm unclear on the intent of why the keys need to be washed. Is this to wash off possible debris that you think may be causing the issue, to wash off the dry lube, or just that you don't want someone's "dirty" key caps back? There are only 10 keycaps on the board with dry lube applied, most of which are from the icon set anyway. I'd rather take the time to wash not wash every other keycap on the board if I don't have to. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just not sure what we're getting at here.

I checked the springs and the end of the springs point towards the top of the keyboard.

All that being said though I think this is all a moot point after discovering some more information.

Because the mechanism is impossible to see once it is in the keyboard, I pulled out a spare barrel from the first aid kit to line up the wear pattern on the stem with the position on the barrel, and I think I am almost positive now as to what is causing the wear. There is a burr inside the bottom of the barrel damaging the stems.

The wear pattern on the stems aligns precisely with the "rim" of where the barrel meets into the bottom ~1mm thick part just before it opens up to the area where the flipper goes. You can see it (and feel it) from the underside easier. There is an ever ever so slight ridge/burr protruding out. To the naked eye it looks like a sharp edge, but with the tip of a needle or screwdriver, you can feel the fine point catch on the burr. When the stem is pressed slightly skewed in the barrel, it rubs against this protruding ridge and this is what causes the wear on the parts that touch, the corner.

To try to draw a diagram of it, it would look something like this:
This correlates with what I'm seeing inside my F104 barrels, you can see right along that that ridge looks even more white, with what looks like worn stem material around it. If anything needs to be deburred, it would be the barrel itself, but that is impossible without removing every single barrel and doing something with that edge.

Take a look at the original IBM F122 barrel, that burr is not there. The shape is the same, the barrel goes down, there is a bevel, and then it goes straight down again to the bottom of the barrel, but the transition is perfectly smooth with no burrs. Pull out a few new barrels and compare them against any old Model Fs you may have. Check and feel that edge, I bet you'll find that it is there on the newly manufactured parts.

To me this seems to be a pretty definitive explanation to what is going on here. The burr on the harder fiberglass reinforced barrels (or whatever they are) is scraping against the softer PBT causing the scratchiness and wear. If the barrels are damaging the stems, that also explains why replacing replacing the keys just causes the problem to come back over time. It also explains why the "scratchy stems" that have been damaged don't "scratch" in the IBM barrels, because that burr isn't there for them to rub on.

Only you know exactly how the factory manufactures those barrels, but I would take a close look at whatever tooling or process determines what how the bottom edge of the barrel is manufactured and see if something can be done about it. The end result is definitely different than the way the original IBM part though.

Your earlier post noted "The biggest difference I noticed between the keys though seemed to be in the "corners" of the barrels. I'm really not sure what we're looking at there though. Is that is wear in the barrel plastic or stem material that has rubbed onto the barrel?. Dust? Nothing? Swapping in a new stem "fixes" the problem (until it would wear again) though. After swapping my scroll lock and T keys, the T barrel with the scroll lock key is perfectly smooth, while scroll lock with the worn T stem feels the exact same, scratchy. So in other words, the feeling follows the stem."

If the feeling follows the stem in different barrels, would that be different from what you noted above?

Again, without replacing the keys we won't know if it is an issue of some bad keys from the injection molds or some other issue.

It seems like letting the keys soak in warm soapy water for an hour, then rinsing them two or three times with non-soapy cold water may be ok. The lube may have to be removed with a hand towel.

For now I recommend that I just replace the main US key set. In a little while from now we will know if it wears the same with your particular usage.

Also have you checked that all springs match the updated photo in the manual, with the keyboard held vertically, space bar end up? Maybe springs in the non-ideal position may contribute to keys not working well over time.

Have you tried burnishing the back stem area with your fingernail with the process noted in the manual? That does smooth out keys in my experience.

Ellipse wrote: 06 Feb 2025, 21:32 After reviewing your additional notes and photos, I can't really diagnose whether there is an issue from here so it would be great if you could wash all the keys (soaked in water, not only wiped by hand) and send the full set back to me for testing. The parts must have all lube and debris removed. (Ultrasonic bath cleaning with dish soap would be best, if you have it)

I will send you a new set as a replacement. Please email me the tracking number after you have sent it back, and let me know if you have any questions with the above steps.

I also suggest cleaning out the barrels with a cotton swab / Q tip and 99% rubbing alcohol before reinstalling the new set. I have found that this helps Model M keyboards as well to improve smoothness.

However I do think that this is just something to do with the typing style you noted, pressing on the edges of the keys, that is more evident with the new production keys which may have slightly tighter tolerances in terms of space between key stem and barrel compared to your particular F122. As I mentioned, the keys should be more difficult to press on the edges than in the center, based on IBM's design, and I'd imagine everyone else has not noticed such an issue because they don't type near the edges of the keys. From what you have described, this is either an issue with one bad key set or due to abnormal usage patterns, so when I receive your set back I should know one way or the other.

Ellipse,

This is going to be complicated. I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner, so I can't ultrasonic clean them before sending them back. Secondly, at least initially, the keys only seem to be scratchy in their usual barrels, so I doubt you'll feel the same thing i you install them in a keyboard and try it out. However, you would be able to get a better look at them. Swapping the keys around or moving them to my F122 does not cause the same scratchiness. Third, my keyboard is a combination of standard keys, Icon keys, keys with lube (large keys around the edges) and keys without. Instead of trying to explain it, here's a picture of the current state .

With that in mind, tell me what you do and don't want back. I highly doubt though a new key set will behave any differently over time though if they are ultimately all the same. The same issue will likely just resurface after a few months of daily use.

Regarding some more photos and some more information on the wear:

Upon close inspection of the keys, there are 4 distinct spots that are wearing on all 4 key corners. The wear is occurring on the "corners" of the stem from the bottom of the step up to several mm from the bottom of the keycap. You can see that outlined the photo below in red on a bad key, green on a good key.
While the keys with the dry lube are not scratchy at all, you can see that same contact/wear patch happening easier on them because of where it rubs off. I would be very curious to hear from any other new Model F owners see this same wear pattern on their heavily used keys. If you can, please pop a few keys off and have a look for me. Surely it can't just be me. I double checked and found that this wear pattern is not occurring at all on my F122 keys even after 40 years despite looking nearly identical. Blaming it on my "typing style" is as absurd sounding as Apple telling people they were holding their iPhone 4s wrong back in 2010. If there is a manufacturing problem, materials issue, or tolerance problem, then that is what it is is and should be addressed as such. And if there is one, then it should affect everyone with that same batch of components equally. Whether they notice it or not is inconsequential. Either the wear is occurring prematurely or it isn't.

I type on old Alps keyboards, Model Ms, Original Model Fs, A handful of different Cherry MX switches all the same way and this seems to be the only keyboard that has a problem with it. I type quickly (110wpm) but surely my typing style along with resonators's isn't all that unique compared to everyone else. And to be clear, I'm not typing at the edges of the keys all day. The issue is that the heavily used keys become scratchy and have more resistance than the non-scratchy keys. When typing quickly it causes missed letters because those keys bind and don't press down all the way. That's obviously not the case with ctrl, alt, tab, those just feel bad when pressed slowly. The feeling is exactly like typing on a dirty Alps keyboard on those keys when they are pressed in just the right way. Chryrosran22 knows what I'm talking about.

After reviewing your additional notes and photos, I can't really diagnose whether there is an issue from here so it would be great if you could wash all the keys (soaked in water, not only wiped by hand) and send the full set back to me for testing. The parts must have all lube and debris removed. (Ultrasonic bath cleaning with dish soap would be best, if you have it)

I will send you a new set as a replacement. Please email me the tracking number after you have sent it back, and let me know if you have any questions with the above steps.

I also suggest cleaning out the barrels with a cotton swab / Q tip and 99% rubbing alcohol before reinstalling the new set. I have found that this helps Model M keyboards as well to improve smoothness.

However I do think that this is just something to do with the typing style you noted, pressing on the edges of the keys, that is more evident with the new production keys which may have slightly tighter tolerances in terms of space between key stem and barrel compared to your particular F122. As I mentioned, the keys should be more difficult to press on the edges than in the center, based on IBM's design, and I'd imagine everyone else has not noticed such an issue because they don't type near the edges of the keys. From what you have described, this is either an issue with one bad key set or due to abnormal usage patterns, so when I receive your set back I should know one way or the other.

mbarszcz neither the original nor reproduction barrels were made of PBT; I was told of the different type of plastic by the same helpful IBM retiree and use it. All the pearl/pebble US keycaps and almost all international sets were produced at least 3 years ago as part of a huge batch that I am still sending out today, so it is not a matter of a change in the keycap parts. (Other sets were produced throughout the past few years, recently such as some international sets and dark gray and blue sets, which have had more demand than expected.)

Since you have received the same exact components as thousands of other folks and the issue is reported by a few out of six thousand, even by those who heavily use the keyboard every day, there is no evidence to show that there is an issue affecting many people.

I can see that you noted you applied teflon lube to the keyboards; lubrication is not something that IBM ever did in widespread usage (outside of soft touch grease type stuff on one or two specific models) and it is not something I recommend. That could definitely affect wear. I know that in my hobby of old electric synchronous clocks, applying anything to certain clock gears is highly frowned upon; the clock collector community consensus is that it actually speeds up the amount of wear to the gears and wear on the rotor or motor.

But I would definitely say that the IBM keycap design results in increased friction for keys pressed along the edges, especially for Model M keycaps and the Model M barrel frame, but to a lesser degree with the F. Recently I was restoring a well-used Model M; I did some edge testing and can confirm some keys require noticeably more force to press on the sides, even for original boards, but in normal typing this was not at all noticeable because I don't press the edges of the keys.

Without further investigation, I am not too confident in what you are saying because if the material wears down, then it would possibly have more space between keycap and barrel as material is worn away, so the amount of friction and additional force required might be reduced. Similar to the wiggle/squeeze/burnish the back of the stem method in the manual to reduce friction.

Again, it would be helpful if you could please review my above recommendations posted a couple days ago and do a closer inspection from what you have done so we can see what the issue might be. It might be best to remove all modifications and teflon lube and replace any parts where that lube has ever contacted (including keycaps and barrels), even if they helped in the short term, as it may have permanently changed or worn the parts in some way.

Sorry ellipse, I meant PBT for the caps/stems. Are the barrels made of the same material or are they something different?

Even if other people have it reported the issue to you, or they "aren't as sensitive" I don't see how that would change the behavior of the keyboard itself. Either the keys and barrels are wearing against each other, or they're not. Considering it's happening on all the keys that get used a lot for me, I don't see how it's a matter of sensitivity or preference, it's just a fact.

Are they all actually like this? Could it be a bad batch? Change in the manufacturing process or matetials over the years? Maybe?

In my own testing over the years I find the new production keycaps to be extremely smooth, in line with my expectations for Model F keycaps after having restored many dozens of original Model F keyboards over the years.

However for everyone, if you find that one key is not to your liking, please swap it with several other keys installed in the same barrel. The goal of that test is to see if it is likely to be the barrel that is at issue or just one bad key. And as always, I have so many extra keys and barrels that I can send a free replacement part if the issue discussed here is with a key or barrel. Just add an order note with your next order, so that it can ship with that order at no extra shipping cost for just one or more keys.

Another good recommendation is to physically inspect the keycaps and barrels at high magnification to see if you can notice any differences between ones that have the different feeling and ones that are fine.

Again this is more of an issue with folks who are extra sensitive to differences in friction when pressing keys in different positions. Outside of the few folks who have noted this issue I have not seen it reported from all of the other six thousand boards that have shipped since 2019. Many folks lately have been telling me they have used their boards for a year or longer with no noticeable issues.

The keycap material is the same exact PBT material that IBM used, as reported to me by an original IBM Model F factory production supervisor. The barrels are not made of PBT. No ABS plastic is used.

I'm noticing that the wear/keys sticking when pressed off-center issue that was being discussed previously by resonator seems to be more widespread than I thought. I've started noticing recently that it impacts heavily used keys as well, not just the unstabilized keys larger than 1U keys near the outside edge. The keys I applied the dry teflon lube so far have been holding up well.

For example, A,S,T,E,R, and U are all scratchier than keys with less common letters like Q, P, M, L, or C. There is no doubt in my mind at this point that there is a some kind of wear occurring between the barrel and the stem over time causing the scratchy feel when pressed off center. The fact that resonator said that swapping stems helped for a while and then it came back seems to suggest that perhaps the barrels are what is causing damage to the ABS stems. Maybe they are made of a harder or rougher material than the stems? I wouldn't think it would be a tolerance issue because they work great initially. Ellipse, are the black barrels and tan key stems made out of the same type of plastic?

With old keyboards, dust and dirt and grime are usually factors impacting this kind of behavior, but since the components are new, I highly doubt dirt or dust are the issue. I don't claim to be an expert, but there is something different about the new stems and barrels that wears different than the originals that are butter smooth even after 40+ years.

It's difficult without feel-o-vision to capture the difference on a youtube video, but here's an example of the F104 vs the F122.
F104: smooth Y, scratchy and sticking T F122 All keys smooth even after 40 years.

Wendell from Level1Techs has just posted a video on the Brand New Model M Style FSSK!

Here was the video comment I posted:
Thanks Wendell for a great video on the Brand New Model F keyboard! I especially liked your explanation of the solenoid and what it does. A number of folks have told me that they didn't really understand what the solenoid did for these old style keyboards and why it was such a popular add on. At a recent keyboard meetup I had the keyboard with installed solenoid connected to my laptop so that folks could see the solenoid in action as they tested the new reproduction keyboards - there was a lot of attention on the solenoid specifically!
Glad you got everything working shampoo! Your issue with the key would probably be helped if you reseated / reinstalled the spring, which may have not been originally seated in the proper position. The manual has recently been updated to show a photo of a correctly seated spring's position with the keyboard held vertically, space bar end up.

Just a heads up, the bending trick outlined in the manual and the video solved my problem. Thanks to all that helped. After, I started to have issues where the Command button (I am on a Mac) would only work sometimes. I reset and reset over and over and same issue. The key sounded fine too. Now I normally have my keyboard plugged into the back of my monitor which then connect vis USB C to my MacBook. I instead plugged it directly into the MacBook and the Mac then asks if I would accept this new device. Yet, I have been using this keyboard for well over a year.. Odd that it asked me that. Anyhow, I accepted and all keys work perfectly.

wobbled wrote: 07 Jan 2025, 01:31 Resonator, thank you for posting the video because this just proves that these boards do have some major issues. Sure they don't effect every board out there... but the boards that are effected literally melt away...

I'm trying to keep out of the drama but I think every one of these boards probably is affected, but only some people are. I'm thinking there's something about me that melts the paint and the only solution would be a change to the formula. I say this with a sample size of one, but I suspect any replacement I got would be destroyed just as quickly.

I'm not defending Ellipse, or the product. This should not be an issue. The only solution is probably a change to the paint formula, which I understand has already happened. For me, and those like me who happen to trash the paint, the only fix is probably a new paint job with different paint.

Ellipse wrote: 07 Jan 2025, 01:41 As a one-off if you'd like, I would like to send a replacement case your way; please email me to follow up on this. I am curious whether the second case will have similar results because the paint is the same, so please do email me around year end. I expect it to! Please note that I am out of beige cases so you'll have to pick another color.

Thanks Ellipse. I appreciate the offer. Can I take an industrial gray? Also, can you please recommend a type of clear coat that I can put over it?

I didn't realize we had already discussed the issue earlier and that it continued to get worse. However since no one else reported this and the issue is in the exact areas where a thumb would rest, I still believe this particular issue is due to skin contact with the paint and is particular to your combination of paint and hands, unless we are seeing dozens and dozens of the exact same thing reported by others.

As a one-off if you'd like, I would like to send a replacement case your way; please email me to follow up on this. I am curious whether the second case will have similar results because the paint is the same, so please do email me around year end. I expect it to! Please note that I am out of beige cases so you'll have to pick another color.

However, I still maintain the project's terms that wear, even wear within the first 1-2 years, is not guaranteed to be replaced for free, even in a similar situation as what was posted here, and since the product description has made note of cosmetic defects and wear, everyone has all of the information available before they make a purchase decision and they should consider other options if the paint finish is their primary selection criteria. Everyone should expect cosmetic damage and wear within 1-2 years, especially on the original paint style F62/F77.

Ellipse, this may well be your thread, but this isn't your forum (despite your begging for people to fund it for you!), and we are free to bring up as many old (though relevant) posts. But thanks for the advice I guess?

You actually have the nerve to suggest that peoples typing styles are to blame for this? While resting palms might not be considered 'good form' one does not expect a $500 keyboard to fucking melt after 9 months of usage you actual troglodye.

Yes, congratulations, you've found a user that has supposedly used his/her keyboard for 2 and a half years with little to no signs of damage. What does this prove exactly when there are significant amounts of users that DO have issues with their case paint melting away. It proves luck, if anything. But It also proves that QC in this project is a fucking non-existent joke that got put on the back burner in favour of a quick sale and profit. Getting a good board is luck of the draw at this point.

Tell me, if you put resonators video on the front page of your website to show people what they should / could expect after less than 1 year of ownership, would you make any sales?
No, hence why you put anything relating to quality issues in small text for users to deep dive before making a purchase for a product that is 'BUILT TO LAST DECADES, NOT YEARS'. Talk about false advertising.

Resonator, thank you for posting the video because this just proves that these boards do have some major issues. Sure they don't effect every board out there. (Full disclosure, both my F62 and F77 that I used to own held up ok, albeit I only used them for 6 months before going back to Topre full time.) but the boards that are effected literally melt away, and ZERO support is offered from ellipse in the form of replacements or refunds.

Ellipse, for fuck sake man, 'typing form' is not the bloody issue here. Quit the CEO businessman bellendery for a minute and go back to being a human being? I actually enjoyed talking to you back in the day about old IBM boards back when you were a person and not Model F Labs LLC.
You sold something that was shit to someone for a lot of money, not everything you sell is shit, but this particular sale to resonator clearly had some production issues, the paint must've been applied incorrectly. And your 'paint pen' suggestions can basically eat a dick. Again, unless this guys putting some corrosive shite on his hands for no reason, this paint shouldn't be coming off after 9 months.

Joe, are you going to do anything to put this right? Or should we just expect more marketing shite from Model F Labs LLC?

To be clear, the discount is not related specifically to the point about wear, so a disclosure that a discount is due to product wear of the cases is not necessary.

Sellers are free to change pricing for any or no reason. Often discounts are done for various business reasons not related to what is being discussed here, and correlation does not imply causation.

All I noted was that I have since discounted the product after many years on the market, not that I discounted the product because of the wear. If that was not clear, please understand this clarifying post.

My point was to indicate that rather than ask everyone to spend the full $399+ amount and then get a free extra case a year later, there is enough of a price reduction now to allow everyone to buy one or two replacement cases if they wanted to, even though these replacements would be of the same paint and would therefore also be subject to wear over time, or decide to benefit from the price change and accept the condition of the product that they read in the product description.

At this point again, we have a couple folks beating a dead horse. For years I have disclosed that paint wear is an acceptable fact of these cases and there are no guarantees on cosmetic condition, and for years one or two folks have repeated the same point that I should replace all worn cases for free, which I have declined to do and have explained why many times. It is not necessary to keep repeating the same discussion, especially since the note on defects is on the product page, free for all to see before they decide whether or not to purchase a product with disclosed cosmetic defects, both upon arrival of the product and also during the first year of usage. A merchant is allowed to sell products with cosmetic defects and that may wear noticeably over time, as long as such notes are disclosed before purchase.

It is clear that a third party is making the most noise on these points, not even those who report the issues on their own keyboards care as much as these other one or two folks that do not even own the keyboards in question, nor do they report on their own ownership experience as often.

The paint wears over time, including within the first year, and for some folks it may wear more than other folks. The fact of cosmetic damage was disclosed right on the product page, so there should be no issue about wear being a surprise, even if some folks have more wear and most folks have no wear. Everyone who reads the product page is aware that if they order the product it is subject to wear.

Once more, only those who accepted the description of the product made the purchase. You cannot expect that the merchant discloses that the product will wear down over time, and then ask the merchant to provide free products because the product has worn down. The product page specifically does not guarantee the cosmetic finish. If you do not agree to the product description, then you are not required to buy the product, but no one can create their own terms that are the complete opposite of the provided terms.