deskthority

Trackpoint Model M13 pad print update:

You can now order the trackpoint pad printed key set: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/product ... f-key-set/

The factory will be pad printing the 15 sets I sent them years back in anticipation of pad printing. Strict limit of 2 sets per person. These might sell out quickly. I wanted to make more but sadly Unicomp no longer has stock of the unprinted GHB Trackpoint keys in black. I noted some alternatives on the product page if you want to save cost, such as getting the normal set and reusing the GHB keys or ordering the pearl GHB dye sublimated keys from the Extra Keys page, just for those 3 keys.

Jesse9766 The current factory can do low volume Model F keys without issue, but your site may be something to consider for the MX beam spring keyboard key sets, especially for folks who may want a specific key set. Of course they probably can't do Model M keys since they don't have the mold or jig.

Everyone I will continue to consider low volume Model F dye sub key sets with a MOQ of 5 sets if you fill out an Inkscape template I can send you. Please email me for details. Also there are a few more key sets that were never created due to having no demand which may have some interest now: Belgian Azerty, Czech, Hungarian, Thai, and Turkish.

Yes edbods, I noted last year that the boxes and outer foam would be updated for my orders to the factory in the future. This will allow more space for the keycaps and additional burst rating for the box itself. However, for current stock, just like with the old cases from the original production, the boxes and foam have already been made and will not be re-made to eliminate the tiny proportion of damaged keys that are replaced free of charge.

Shipping issues are quite rare and folks with issues are far more likely to mention having an issue compared to the vast majority of folks who have not had an issue. As a note, keys arriving broken are covered under the warranty and will be replaced free of charge. I have many extras so it is not an issue if something needs to be replaced. Folks can just reply to their order email after delivery, if such an issue comes up.

The boxes approved last year (see late August postings) for the forthcoming beam spring boards have more space below and above the keyboard (more foam) and are double walled. And we went back to the regular slotted container (short edge side fold) design.

This year some of the to do list is to redesign the project web site, update the boxes and foam as mentioned above, update the springs and assembly machine to make the sound more like later production Model F springs (less ringing compared to the earlier-production 4704 and XT springs that the project was based on), continue working on the new keyboard designs mentioned last year (Split Ergonomic, Ortholinear, 5x12 and similar, Kinesis Advantage, etc.), and continue with the new pad printed keys currently tooling to prepare for production.

Ellipse wrote: 17 Dec 2025, 03:15 edbods these boards do not have large QC issues, despite what the same few folks like to repeat and show the same photos again and again over the past several years. Several people posting mostly about paint from boards made 5 years ago does not indicate widespread issues. With 7,000+ boards shipped there are bound to be some issues with specific folks (most often due to roughness in shipping) but we are not seeing even dozens of people posting each year despite a thousand or so boards shipping each year.

The main comment is that the first round boards did have a more authentic and less durable powdercoating finish, which was changed years ago but some stock remains of these older boards (F62 and F77) so those who have such a board are the only ones posting the same note about the powdercoating. The new boards (2021 onwards - compact F62/F77, F104/SSK/122, round 1 beam) have had no complaints so far about paint wear as the formulation changed. In other words, if you can't accept old style powdercoating, you can choose any other board besides the classic F62/77 and the issue with wear will not be present.

The setup process does involve following the step by step guides to adjust the keyboard, as adjustments like what you mentioned are specifically noted as being a part of the normal setup process. Having to make adjustments during setup is not a failure of QC, as these boards are treated heavily by the shipping companies and springs and such may fall out of place and spacebar wires may need adjustment. My earlier postings and the project web site blog post updates explain the reasoning behind requiring users to learn how to maintain a Model F keyboard hopefully for the rest of their lives, instead of selling a product that arrives ready to plug in and start using but doesn't last more than a couple years. The alternative (including staff for support, etc.) would make these already-pricy boards cost even more.

I do understand that as I did read as much of the manual as I could and probably forgot more than I learnt to be honest, but at the same time I'm also aware that not everyone is going to be happy with everything about it, so I do let people know things that could potentially appear. I am also aware that things like the paint were old issues, but there are also other things like the rusty stabiliser bar brackets; they may not affect functionality (at least for now since it's surface rust, but anyone that's worked on cars knows...rust never sleeps) but most people would absolutely request a warranty replacement. To be honest, I didn't bother pushing any further because I didn't think it'd get anywhere, and I have a bad habit of fixing things myself wherever I can, rather than going through the process of an RMA.

edbods these boards do not have large QC issues, despite what the same few folks like to repeat and show the same photos again and again over the past several years. Several people posting mostly about paint from boards made 5 years ago does not indicate widespread issues. With 7,000+ boards shipped there are bound to be some issues with specific folks (most often due to roughness in shipping) but we are not seeing even dozens of people posting each year despite a thousand or so boards shipping each year.

The main comment is that the first round boards did have a more authentic and less durable powdercoating finish, which was changed years ago but some stock remains of these older boards (F62 and F77) so those who have such a board are the only ones posting the same note about the powdercoating. The new boards (2021 onwards - compact F62/F77, F104/SSK/122, round 1 beam) have had no complaints so far about paint wear as the formulation changed. In other words, if you can't accept old style powdercoating, you can choose any other board besides the classic F62/77 and the issue with wear will not be present.

The setup process does involve following the step by step guides to adjust the keyboard, as adjustments like what you mentioned are specifically noted as being a part of the normal setup process. Having to make adjustments during setup is not a failure of QC, as these boards are treated heavily by the shipping companies and springs and such may fall out of place and spacebar wires may need adjustment. My earlier postings and the project web site blog post updates explain the reasoning behind requiring users to learn how to maintain a Model F keyboard hopefully for the rest of their lives, instead of selling a product that arrives ready to plug in and start using but doesn't last more than a couple years. The alternative (including staff for support, etc.) would make these already-pricy boards cost even more.

Lol no surprise there, such is many things in life unfortunately. But until someone comes up with an alternative...doubt things will change.

wobbled wrote: 14 Dec 2025, 16:17 All you have to do is search for ‘issue’ or ‘problem’ in these threads to get the real truth.

Yeah I did read up about all the issues around QC and all that. I bought mine anyway being prepared for such things because I really wanted this keyboard ever since I first heard about it way back in 2015. But I do tell people I come across that are thinking of buying them of what to watch out for, so they can at least be somewhat prepared if they commit to buying one.

edbods wrote: 14 Dec 2025, 03:57 Interesting that his one came pre-assembled...I had to put mine together lol. Still though, I'm happy with mine, especially after figuring out exactly why my space bar kept binding (had to push the right stabliser bar bracket further back so the stab bar could actually get some horizontal movement).

Well he’s not going to send his usual crap, ellipse most likely QC’d and tuned it before sending it out.
Not sure why he bothered, Chyros wouldn’t have said anything bad about the board even if it did have issues, the bias is too obvious in his ellipse reviews unfortunately.
All you have to do is search for ‘issue’ or ‘problem’ in these threads to get the real truth.

TRN wrote: 10 Nov 2025, 10:53 I have been using my F122, but I've found a minor issue I've not been able to work out on my own. Sometimes the solenoid will stick for an indefinite amount of time. I don't know what the core of the solenoid is binding on, but it is randomly binding on something. But it always unsticks itself with a modest thump.

I don't know if Ellipse has a solution to this already, but I'm hesitant to just do something like throwing a bit of instrument and tool oil into it until I have at least asked if the solenoid would be damaged by doing so. I'd rather not screw up my daily driver, especially when I don't know if the solenoid binding occasionally is a known issue, or a defect specific to my unit.

I'm pretty sure it's physically binding, as I can't see any issues on the driver board, but the process of opening the keyboard to look at the solenoid always frees it, and I can't reproduce the issue when I have the case open and am moving the solenoid by hand. Any suggestions on that front are welcome. If Ellipse thinks that it's not a mechanical issue, I can probably figure out tapping an oscilloscope into the solenoid circuit if he wants to look at the electrical side of things.

It's the one and only frustration on what is absolutely the best keyboard I've ever used. It has made writing so much more of a joy, and I'm still looking forward to actually trying it out on a game that actually requires precise and fast key inputs since I've been spending my free time writing instead of playing games.

If you need to lube up the solenoid find something that's safe for electronics and won't harm plastics. Dielectric grease sounds like something that'd work. Get a tube from an auto parts store or something.
I've been using mine daily since August playing shooters like Insurgency, I've had no real problems with it so far aside from occasionally trying to double tap a key but not releasing it fully, so that it thinks it's just being held down instead, but that's just something I can adjust to easily. I still grin like an idiot whenever I have to type really quick in a game.
I did have a bug where some keys seemed to not register upon turning the computer on from standby, but that was apparently an issue with the firmware at the time and updating it a few days ago that issue has gone away. The num lock light seems to randomly turn on when the computer's sleeping though. Just something worth mentioning.

I have been using my F122, but I've found a minor issue I've not been able to work out on my own. Sometimes the solenoid will stick for an indefinite amount of time. I don't know what the core of the solenoid is binding on, but it is randomly binding on something. But it always unsticks itself with a modest thump.

I don't know if Ellipse has a solution to this already, but I'm hesitant to just do something like throwing a bit of instrument and tool oil into it until I have at least asked if the solenoid would be damaged by doing so. I'd rather not screw up my daily driver, especially when I don't know if the solenoid binding occasionally is a known issue, or a defect specific to my unit.

I'm pretty sure it's physically binding, as I can't see any issues on the driver board, but the process of opening the keyboard to look at the solenoid always frees it, and I can't reproduce the issue when I have the case open and am moving the solenoid by hand. Any suggestions on that front are welcome. If Ellipse thinks that it's not a mechanical issue, I can probably figure out tapping an oscilloscope into the solenoid circuit if he wants to look at the electrical side of things.

It's the one and only frustration on what is absolutely the best keyboard I've ever used. It has made writing so much more of a joy, and I'm still looking forward to actually trying it out on a game that actually requires precise and fast key inputs since I've been spending my free time writing instead of playing games.

Rico has just published the latest firmware update for all Leyden-Jar based keyboards (currently just the F122 but soon the Round 2 B104 and B122, and eventually all boards):

https://github.com/mymakercorner/vial-q ... 2025_10_24

This firmware fixes a bug where the keyboard needed to be unplugged and plugged back in to work after certain computers resumed from sleep mode. It also fixes an issue where splitting certain keys in the allpads version was not saved after the keyboard is power cycled.

Everyone feel free to test this latest version and let me know if there are any other issues.

I wish I had known that mod was possible before I ordered my beamspring. My biggest issue with the 'F122' model offered is its T-nav layout; I want an F122, but with a cross-nav like on my M122s.

Thought I'd post a photo of my F122 w/ bonus cat. I don't have a use for all my keys yet so there are a few blanks. The ones I have added a legend for so far have used the template from @Cyber_engineer -- super handy.

I'd love to hear advice from folks on a few things I've been dealing with. The main one is that pressing "x" or "." bumps the space stabilizer a little, which causes the spacebar to rattle -- making the experience unpleasant. Is there any way to adjust (bend?) it so it clears freely and doesn't interfere with those keys at all?

Second issue is that I've not been able to find a setting or hardware arrangement for my solenoid that makes a nice subtle haptic "tak" -- it's more like a loud typewriter, even with settings that barely get the solenoid to fire at all. Am I doing something wrong or were my expectations just not reasonable?

The solenoid should work by default without any configuration or keypress combinations. I recommend erasing the eeprom in the leyden jar tool and reflashing the firmware. Since the solenoid is able to fire, it may be an issue with your USB port (not enough power, USB hub, etc.). I recommend trying another port, another computer, and maybe trying your other Model F keyboard if all else doesn't work.

With permission I am sharing the first photo of the Hebrew English key set on the new F122!

There are a couple dozen available key sets and it is nice to see photos of some of the rarer key sets.
thrillscience kindly see my replies below:

1. The issue is "the horizontal gap because the bottom plate hasn't been slid over enough" because the plates may not line up properly and could be more likely to separate. The plates should be able to slide so that they cannot travel any more and the sides of the tabs of the TIA make contact with the BIA cut out areas.

2. Yes, I'd like to take a photo one of these days showing the clamps, but feel free to search for "F122 model f clamps" to see how these larger keyboards are put together. It takes a few minutes with the right tools, or an hour otherwise! Some of the clamps should be inserted so that they are compressing the area between the function keys and top row of numbered keys, so that those TIA tabs rise enough above the BIA to clear it and allow the plates to slide together.



ms264556 the recommendation is to print out the templates on paper and cut out each one to fit the key. That way the legends can all have the same paper color, the key stem is no longer visible after the template is installed, and one can change the legend in the future. Unicomp provided the stems (they are regular Model M stems for two-piece keys) and noted that they are all assorted colors; no way to have all the same color.

Ellipse wrote: 23 May 2025, 09:17 resonator, did you replace them with caps and barrels from the same batch or from a different shipment from years before or after the originals? Have you been using the board for many months without issue after replacing the barrels and keys? Can you try the reported scratchy keys and barrels outside of the keyboard to see if they are the same, and see if you can notice anything different with them? Could it be an issue of tolerances (maybe the key stem was a little too wide and/or the barrel interior was a little too small - you may need a micrometer or caliper to determine this accurately)? Do you see evidence of excess flashing or wear on the keys or barrels?

I bought a few more barrels with the replacement keycaps about a year after I received my keyboard. The newer barrels went into my first-aid kit and got mixed up with the barrels I already had. I can't say whether I replaced the barrels from the scratchy keys with newer or older barrels.

I did buy another delete key (1.5u above enter) with an alternative legend when I got the replacement caps, but I didn't end up using it because it was scratchy and my original wasn't.

I've been using the replacement keys since about January. They're all still buttery smooth.

Wear can be seen in the barrels and on the stems of the scratchy parts. I'm happy to send them to you to examine if you like. There are four of each. I didn't record which stem was used with which barrel but it shouldn't be hard to find a scratchy combination. Send me an email or PM with your postage details if you're interested.

Thanks for sharing photos of your modded F122 Ordinary Witch!

I like the terminal-style customizations that remind me of the F122 originals.

Can folks please share what they do with the custom keys in Vial? To give people ideas on the possibilities. Are they macros? Key combinations? Do they open specific programs?

F77E39 I can confirm that the two issues were discussed over the years. Regarding paint loss, this is disclosed on the project web site as you mentioned, and the paint formulation changed years ago to a tougher powdercoating with no reports of premature wear (the oldest keyboards with this new powdercoating were the compact F77 and compact F62 keyboards that were powdercoated and die cast instead of CNC milled and anodized; the new cases started shipping in early 2022). In summary every keyboard besides the two originals does not have this issue because the issue was due to the old style paint used on all the original style zinc cases; once current stock is depleted that powdercoating will no longer be available, but it is the only option if you want one of the original project boards. It is not an issue related to a possibly defective batch as there are far more reports of keyboards from that batch in perfect paint condition after years of daily usage.

Regarding a few reports of scratchiness:

For those few folks reporting scratchy keys please do some more research to see what is the matter or what some possible fixes may be (see the links below). Out of thousands of boards shipped since 2019 this issue has only been reported by a handful of people and only on the DT forum, so I am inclined to believe that this is more of people noticing differences compared to their other keyboards, which may be described as having a smoother feel, whether IBM or not.

I just went back in my emails to see previous discussions. In two of the earliest discussions, folks reported scratchiness with off-center pressing in an original IBM XT Model F keyboard, and it persisted with one example even after a thorough restoration including ultrasonic cleaning of the parts. Otherwise I can't find any reports of new production 1U keys being scratchy outside of the several reports here.

I see a few discussions of scratchiness in original IBM Model M and Model F keyboards (linked below), including some mod attempts that folks have tried, revolving around removing excess flashing. I don't see excess flashing on the new production keys but maybe trimming parts of the stem like the very bottom edge of the keycap or the semicircular area may help with original keys. Are these keys a fraction of a mm too tall and it is touching the PCB when pressed? According to one DT member in 2014: "The other thing to check for - is the bottom lips of the stem don't have any flash on them. I ran into this a couple times with new stems from Unicomp - where a little bit of flash would rub against the spring making it feel scratchy. Quick work with a razor can clean this up."

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I don't know what the current status of that is from those who have been doing tests. There was some discussion of using a dremel to remove a mold parting line inside the barrel, but I am not sure if that fixed the issue that a few folks reported.

resonator, did you replace them with caps and barrels from the same batch or from a different shipment from years before or after the originals? Have you been using the board for many months without issue after replacing the barrels and keys? Can you try the reported scratchy keys and barrels outside of the keyboard to see if they are the same, and see if you can notice anything different with them? Could it be an issue of tolerances (maybe the key stem was a little too wide and/or the barrel interior was a little too small - you may need a micrometer or caliper to determine this accurately)? Do you see evidence of excess flashing or wear on the keys or barrels?

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share my experience with the Model F Labs F77, which I received less than a year ago. Typing feel has been great, one of my favourite boards overall.

However, two issues have emerged that I believe are worth surfacing, particularly for anyone considering this board or already owning it:

1. Premature Paint Wear
The powder-coated finish began noticeably wearing through on the front edge where my right palm rests in under a year of ownership. It has now become a major eyesore. The paint where the left palm rests seems fine and has a different consistency.
I reached out to Joe (Ellipse), who acknowledged it but pointed to the ToS, stating that cosmetic wear is expected and not covered. While I understand the need for terms, this level of wear on a premium board, one marketed for its heirloom-level quality felt excessive. The current disclosure doesn’t reflect the severity or real-world visibility of this issue, a phrase like “paint wear” can imply minor patina or dings, not bare metal exposure within 6–9 months, or a coating so brittle it flakes under light palm contact from day one. I think one of two things should've happened upfront:
If the wear is expected, this should've been more clearly communicated with photos and a strong recommendation to clear coat.
If it's not typical, then the handful of users who get unlucky with a fragile finish should be offered a clean solution.

Community question: Has anyone here refinished their zinc F77 case, used touch-up paint, or proactively clear-coated it? I'd love specific brand/method suggestions.

2. Off-Center Key Scratchiness
Some keys feel noticeably scratchy when pressed off-center. Center presses are fine, but there's a distinct plastic on plastic friction and binding on off angle input.

Is this typical for Model F reproductions? If so, is there any known way to improve it? I've seen references to cleaning and relubing vintage boards, but I'd appreciate any proven approaches specific to these modern reproductions.

Despite these two pain points, I'm still impressed with the typing feel and general build of the board. But the paint wear has been a major eyesore, and the scratchiness slightly detracts from the otherwise stellar tactile response.
Appreciate any advice from others who’ve faced similar issues or found solid solutions.

Ellipse wrote: 12 May 2025, 21:32 Important F122 Leyden Jar firmware update to fix phantom key press issue for some keyboards, and other replies:

Nice customization tinydarkness! I like the use of Industrial SSK and terminal keys.

Confirmed, tracking emails are sent as soon as I have the tracking information.

Wow that is fast! Usually they are not that fast!

With permission I am sharing another nice customized F122.

Mopar Blue set F122 - Copy.jpeg



When you have a moment, everyone please test the updated F122 firmware and let me know if there are any issues.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... _05_10.zip

Rico is working on a new firmware update that will fix a few other small requests too, but I recommend updating to the above firmware if you have any issues with the debounce/with phantom key presses. The above link will no longer work and the file will be deleted after the update is made and added to the regular QMK-layout-files.zip file in the manual, where the various firmware files are all located.

The debounce was not working at all on the original firmware because the debounce time in was set too low for the higher number of bins used in the default firmware (more bins requires a few thousandths of a second more debounce time). More details are below if you are interested.


You have to manually set the debounce time as it is a constant. Setting this time too low results in debounce not running at all, so a setting of 10 ms is recommended as an initial test. Rico notes "What needs to be done for the F122 keyboard is to increase debouncing time so that it is higher than the matrix scan time + additional qmk logic. Total latency is approximately max(debounce_time, matrix_scanning_time) + qmk logic. This means that if the matrix scanning takes more time than the debounce time, no debouncing will be done. With 6 bins we have ~4.3ms scanning time, this is not a huge number. Sure QMK USB polling rate take an additional 1ms and debouncing takes 5ms on top of that, we still end at ~10ms latency which is more than adequate for normal typing sessions and casual gaming (below this value only the very best players can see the difference, and they are more probably inclined to use a hall effect gaming keyboard). To reduce latencies maybe it would be easier to reduce the debouncing values (and check that it does not introduce double press issues), or even better select another debouncing algorithm (there is one that introduces no delay when detecting key presses, only one when detecting key releases). To change the debounce time, the following line has to be added in the info.json file of the f122 board:"
"debounce": 10

The only downside to longer debounce times is a couple thousandths of a second additional input delay. Many mechanical keyboards are about 10ms anyways, about the same as Leyden Jar-powered keyboards.

I flashed the new firmware and have continued using the keyboard as normal. No issues with anything firmware related that I can see thus far.

Important F122 Leyden Jar firmware update to fix phantom key press issue for some keyboards, and other replies:

Nice customization tinydarkness! I like the use of Industrial SSK and terminal keys.

Confirmed, tracking emails are sent as soon as I have the tracking information.

Wow that is fast! Usually they are not that fast!

With permission I am sharing another nice customized F122.


When you have a moment, everyone please test the updated F122 firmware and let me know if there are any issues.

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/wp-cont ... _05_10.zip

Rico is working on a new firmware update that will fix a few other small requests too, but I recommend updating to the above firmware if you have any issues with the debounce/with phantom key presses. The above link will no longer work and the file will be deleted after the update is made and added to the regular QMK-layout-files.zip file in the manual, where the various firmware files are all located.

The debounce was not working at all on the original firmware because the debounce time in was set too low for the higher number of bins used in the default firmware (more bins requires a few thousandths of a second more debounce time). More details are below if you are interested.


You have to manually set the debounce time as it is a constant. Setting this time too low results in debounce not running at all, so a setting of 10 ms is recommended as an initial test. Rico notes "What needs to be done for the F122 keyboard is to increase debouncing time so that it is higher than the matrix scan time + additional qmk logic. Total latency is approximately max(debounce_time, matrix_scanning_time) + qmk logic. This means that if the matrix scanning takes more time than the debounce time, no debouncing will be done. With 6 bins we have ~4.3ms scanning time, this is not a huge number. Sure QMK USB polling rate take an additional 1ms and debouncing takes 5ms on top of that, we still end at ~10ms latency which is more than adequate for normal typing sessions and casual gaming (below this value only the very best players can see the difference, and they are more probably inclined to use a hall effect gaming keyboard). To reduce latencies maybe it would be easier to reduce the debouncing values (and check that it does not introduce double press issues), or even better select another debouncing algorithm (there is one that introduces no delay when detecting key presses, only one when detecting key releases). To change the debounce time, the following line has to be added in the info.json file of the f122 board:"
"debounce": 10

The only downside to longer debounce times is a couple thousandths of a second additional input delay. Many mechanical keyboards are about 10ms anyways, about the same as Leyden Jar-powered keyboards.

With permission I am sharing the second user image of the new F122 keyboards! This one includes some interesting keys from Unicomp, with legends I have not seen before.
Regarding the powdercoating, since folks from various years have noted their keyboards were perfect after years of daily usage and others noting issues after a year or less from the same batches as those other folks, I do not think that the issue has to do with being in the earlier or later production batch but more to do with the type of powdercoating used in these batches being not up to modern levels of durability. As I noted before, the powdercoated compact case keyboards (that started shipping years ago) as well as all subsequent powdercoated models all use the modern style tougher powdercoating that does not seem to wear over time. Another possibility could be travel distance, international handling, package travel by airplane, etc. as in general a good proportion of the reports of powdercoating quality have been from folks whose keyboards have traveled halfway around the globe by air (all keyboards of course traveled around the globe by sea to me). I don't think we will ever know for sure and this powdercoating won't be used again for any projects so it should not be a concern for all models besides the original classic style F62/F77.

F122 update:

I am working on the first batch of F122 orders, with priority towards the low/custom serials (it is still OK to add a custom/low serial upgrade to your F122). I want to make sure everything is good so as to avoid the need for folks to do a firmware update. There are about 150 boards to go out. This process only started recently; it did not start as soon as the keyboards arrived last month. The goal was to get out that shipment out of China as quickly as possible (even if I was not ready to ship them soon after they were expected to arrive), and the shipment ended up leaving the port only days before the first tariffs went into effect.

As always for each board I do the final QC, including making sure each key pad registers in the signal level monitor. In addition to creating the entire Leyden Jar controller hardware, firmware, and diagnostic utility (!), Rico has been very helpful in fine-tuning the firmware for the production units. Extra attention needs to be paid to the calibration bins and the threshold offset values, so I've been trying various firmwares that vary these settings so I can put the best one on the boards.

As mentioned in the prior F122 update, some boards are in the first batch that arrived several weeks ago, while others are in the future batch that the factory is working to complete this month (they had to remake a small number of individual parts that were damaged or defective - I've asked them to make extras for future orders so that we won't have to wait to remake parts to complete a current order). I won't be confirming everyone's order to see which batch they are in as my focus is to get these orders out as quickly as possible. The low serial upgrades are definitely appreciated to help cover project cost overruns, but it doesn't mean your board is prioritized during factory production; it means that your board is prioritized for shipping once it is in stock. The factory makes these keyboards by variation number, doing all boards of a particular variation at one time; they did not do 50% of each variation or prioritize making just the keyboards that were already ordered as that is not a feasible production process. Currently there are several hundred variations of the Model F keyboards that the factory has made.

It's always slower for a new product as I physically set up and test a sample of the first keyboards going out, with different variations (this does not mean that all the single digit serials get set up, for example). This is a slow process. I do a good amount of testing to measure the signal output of each key, as well as doing typing tests. I am definitely taking my time with extra caution for the F122's since this is the very first Leyden Jar RP2040 powered keyboards.

I mentioned an update about the tariffs earlier this month (see that post a bit earlier in this thread for details). Currently they have no effect on the project, as nothing has shipped in the past few weeks since they went into effect. As mentioned earlier, the current tariff rate for the HTS number 8471 containing keyboards was temporarily lowered to 20% on the production cost, which is not something that would cause an insurmountable issue if it were to remain in place.

Currently this is not an available option but something I might consider, in addition to the other strategies noted before, is to allow folks in the second batch to switch their keyboard to an in stock variation, after all the keyboards from the current batch have shipped. Please do not email me asking to switch now as I don't know which keyboards will be available until I've tested and mailed out the first batch.

If you are not picky with the case colors, please order a color other than Off-White/Beige or Industrial Gray. Those colors were more popular than expected and I want to make sure some are still available in the future for those who are not flexible.

Ellipse wrote: 08 Apr 2025, 04:46 Yes, as I mentioned over email, it is expected that the uncoated original style paint will wear where it is rubbed during contact. To keep the project's goal as a reproduction of the IBM originals, the paint has no glossy automotive style protective finish.

Several years ago I changed the paint formulation for a less historically styled, tougher modern powdercoating which currently has an excellent track record of little to no wear (this formulation was first used on the die cast compact case F62/F77 cases, while the very first production run from 2019 used anodized cases for the compact cases). The original F62/F77 project's remaining keyboards were not discarded and will probably sell out over the coming months.

We discussed your issue with some keys having chipped stems at the bottom and those keys being the ones that required more careful on-center pressing - I don't think you caught all of them from the originally damaged batch but I noted that I am happy to replace the broken keys with the order you were placing. Broken keys should not be used.

Why not switch all the keys from one keyboard to the other to see if what you call the scratchy keys are due to the keycaps or due to the barrels? I suggest using them for a month or so before evaluating.

Thanks for the info! I'll make sure to order the spare keys!
Is there a way to know whether which paint formulation my keyboards are using?
I made an earlier post about it, it seems the texture of my paint coatings is vastly different between the two keyboards:

The upper is my "old" keyboard (serial number 6xx) and the lower one is the new (serial number 9xx).


Switching the keys is a good idea. Only problem is that the keyboards are 800km apart from each other (using them in two different locations).

Yes, as I mentioned over email, it is expected that the uncoated original style paint will wear where it is rubbed during contact. To keep the project's goal as a reproduction of the IBM originals, the paint has no glossy automotive style protective finish.

Several years ago I changed the paint formulation for a less historically styled, tougher modern powdercoating which currently has an excellent track record of little to no wear (this formulation was first used on the die cast compact case F62/F77 cases, while the very first production run from 2019 used anodized cases for the compact cases). The original F62/F77 project's remaining keyboards were not discarded and will probably sell out over the coming months.

We discussed your issue with some keys having chipped stems at the bottom and those keys being the ones that required more careful on-center pressing - I don't think you caught all of them from the originally damaged batch but I noted that I am happy to replace the broken keys with the order you were placing. Broken keys should not be used.

Why not switch all the keys from one keyboard to the other to see if what you call the scratchy keys are due to the keycaps or due to the barrels? I suggest using them for a month or so before evaluating.

Or maybe you could put your own money into researching your own products issue ellipse instead of asking people to reach out to engineer contacts lmfao. Quit expecting people to work for free for you, only to spit back in their face when they ask you for product specs.

Rico this is great news! The eventual goal is to have all new and original Model F keyboards supported by the Leyden Jar controller.

If anyone has any ideas to discuss about regarding the next keyboards (ortholinear / planck / split ortho / etc.) please do share them! What would be feasible to add or update?

Everyone please do keep up this discussion; maybe it would be best if folks could ask around their materials science / engineer contacts to see what else could be looked into.

Volkovich_ paint wear has been reported on zinc cases and has been discussed for the past few years, though it seems to affect certain folks more than others.

Years ago the powdercoating paint formulation was changed for all other cases (compact F62/F77, Model M style cases, beam spring cases) to make it more modern-looking and less of the old style texture. Paint wear over time has not been reported as a widespread issue on these other cases with the newer formulation.

The F104 keys should be from the same batch that I mailed you in 2022, so there should be no difference in what you are reporting. Maybe try swapping a "scratchy" key from your new board to the old keyboard and swap the old key from your old keyboard to your new F104 and let us know the result. The barrels and springs are the same type of material as well.

Maybe it is just that the springs and other parts have loosened or become smoother in your older keyboard after many years of usage.

There is a large section in the recently updated manual on how to adjust the spacebar to increase or reduce the force, including bending the stabilizer wire away from or closer to the metal tabs, adjusting the metal tabs themselves, and replacing or reinstalling the spring.

mbarszcz from what you are reporting, it does not appear to be an issue with a particular keycap mold cavity. The barrels also have cavities but that would require opening the inner assembly to confirm.

It is still not clear why scratchiness has been reported only in recent months while the keycaps were almost all made years ago and the barrel plastic is the same. I thought it could be an issue with keycap mold wear but the issue is being reported with various keycap molds. Could it be an issue with barrel mold wear?

YALE70 are you trimming the top of the barrel or the entire length inside the barrel, where the key stem makes contact? If the mold has worn a bit, it would make the inside area of the barrel slightly smaller which may increase friction (I have reported this possibility to the factory for analysis).

Yes, everyone feel free to sign the interest forms below:

Pad print interest form: https://forms.gle/qvX4pR27a9Sr7fSN6

Interest form for PC AT big enter, ISO enter non-stepped, and Code key: https://forms.gle/XNmsgnwKfbwYMfci8

As a reminder, I had to cancel factory work on both these items in the past couple years due to subpar quality (see prior forum and blog postings for details); I hope to resume work later this year with new factories.

This discussion is quite puzzling to me since only the same 2 or 3 folks are noticing this even though the same exact batch of materials and produced parts has been used for years on thousands of keyboards. The constant feedback I receive from folks who have used these keyboards for years says the keyboard is great and no one is saying the keyboard became scratchy after using it. If it was a bad batch, one would think that more than 3 folks would notice and that people would not start noticing only years after this same parts batch started shipping, even though it is reported to become noticeable just after a month of usage?

If this were a widespread issue wouldn't I be receiving dozens and dozens of reports over email? Even with thousands of boards out there, I have received so far 0 emails about what you are reporting with keys becoming scratchy after a while, from what I can see checking my email just now.

Another interesting idea is for me to send you a scrap original production pearl/pebble first batch key set with alignment and other issues (and missing keys) or an unprinted pearl/pebble key set. The unprinted pearl/pebble sets are all still from the first batch. This way we can see if something changed with the 2022 batch, even though it's the same material.

Also, someone else suggested trying XT barrels (you'd have to cut off their pin registration post). I have a few I could send for testing. That would possibly rule out the new barrels.

For those reporting this, are your findings more prominent with a particular key size, mold cavity number, or key color? Maybe we can narrow down what you are saying a bit. As I mentioned before, the US pearl/pebble keys are just about all the same batch made years ago, same type of plastic. Same with the barrels being the same type of plastic. Also please send photos of the worn barrels.

Yes, I would definitely appreciate receiving back those parts so that I can compare them to other parts, and I'd be happy to exchange them by mailing replacements with someone's next order (just add an order note so I don't forget!).

It is not as if it affects only a certain recent batch made last year for example. As I mentioned before, the US pearl/pebble keys are just about all the same batch, same type of plastic. Same with the barrels being the same type of plastic.

The only hangup I have now is that I don't want to dismantle this thing 15 times, I am in an all-or-nothing mood. The debate is whether I leave near-to-original finish or see if I have something I could use to polish it a bit. They weren't exactly pretty to begin with but if the surface gets taken down too much that is going to add wobble.

As for as molds go, is it possible there is a tooling lifespan issue? Or have there not been enough produced for that? It looks a whole lot like the casting line where the two halves meet, but I am not an injection molding guy and I don't know what I am talking about.

I guess I did contradict myself between the two posts. It all depends on the situation I suppose. What I'm trying to say is if the scratchy feeling is going to follow anything, it seems to follow the stems once they are damaged. Once a stem is scratchy, it seems to be scratchy in its original barrel, always. Moving it to another barrel is SOMETIMES scratchy, sometimes not. Moving a "fresh" stem into a previously scratchy barrel never seems to be scratchy. (after I wrote the rest of this post, it makes even more sense).

I'm unclear on the intent of why the keys need to be washed. Is this to wash off possible debris that you think may be causing the issue, to wash off the dry lube, or just that you don't want someone's "dirty" key caps back? There are only 10 keycaps on the board with dry lube applied, most of which are from the icon set anyway. I'd rather take the time to wash not wash every other keycap on the board if I don't have to. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just not sure what we're getting at here.

I checked the springs and the end of the springs point towards the top of the keyboard.

All that being said though I think this is all a moot point after discovering some more information.

Because the mechanism is impossible to see once it is in the keyboard, I pulled out a spare barrel from the first aid kit to line up the wear pattern on the stem with the position on the barrel, and I think I am almost positive now as to what is causing the wear. There is a burr inside the bottom of the barrel damaging the stems.

The wear pattern on the stems aligns precisely with the "rim" of where the barrel meets into the bottom ~1mm thick part just before it opens up to the area where the flipper goes. You can see it (and feel it) from the underside easier. There is an ever ever so slight ridge/burr protruding out. To the naked eye it looks like a sharp edge, but with the tip of a needle or screwdriver, you can feel the fine point catch on the burr. When the stem is pressed slightly skewed in the barrel, it rubs against this protruding ridge and this is what causes the wear on the parts that touch, the corner.

To try to draw a diagram of it, it would look something like this:
This correlates with what I'm seeing inside my F104 barrels, you can see right along that that ridge looks even more white, with what looks like worn stem material around it. If anything needs to be deburred, it would be the barrel itself, but that is impossible without removing every single barrel and doing something with that edge.

Take a look at the original IBM F122 barrel, that burr is not there. The shape is the same, the barrel goes down, there is a bevel, and then it goes straight down again to the bottom of the barrel, but the transition is perfectly smooth with no burrs. Pull out a few new barrels and compare them against any old Model Fs you may have. Check and feel that edge, I bet you'll find that it is there on the newly manufactured parts.

To me this seems to be a pretty definitive explanation to what is going on here. The burr on the harder fiberglass reinforced barrels (or whatever they are) is scraping against the softer PBT causing the scratchiness and wear. If the barrels are damaging the stems, that also explains why replacing replacing the keys just causes the problem to come back over time. It also explains why the "scratchy stems" that have been damaged don't "scratch" in the IBM barrels, because that burr isn't there for them to rub on.

Only you know exactly how the factory manufactures those barrels, but I would take a close look at whatever tooling or process determines what how the bottom edge of the barrel is manufactured and see if something can be done about it. The end result is definitely different than the way the original IBM part though.

Your earlier post noted "The biggest difference I noticed between the keys though seemed to be in the "corners" of the barrels. I'm really not sure what we're looking at there though. Is that is wear in the barrel plastic or stem material that has rubbed onto the barrel?. Dust? Nothing? Swapping in a new stem "fixes" the problem (until it would wear again) though. After swapping my scroll lock and T keys, the T barrel with the scroll lock key is perfectly smooth, while scroll lock with the worn T stem feels the exact same, scratchy. So in other words, the feeling follows the stem."

If the feeling follows the stem in different barrels, would that be different from what you noted above?

Again, without replacing the keys we won't know if it is an issue of some bad keys from the injection molds or some other issue.

It seems like letting the keys soak in warm soapy water for an hour, then rinsing them two or three times with non-soapy cold water may be ok. The lube may have to be removed with a hand towel.

For now I recommend that I just replace the main US key set. In a little while from now we will know if it wears the same with your particular usage.

Also have you checked that all springs match the updated photo in the manual, with the keyboard held vertically, space bar end up? Maybe springs in the non-ideal position may contribute to keys not working well over time.

Have you tried burnishing the back stem area with your fingernail with the process noted in the manual? That does smooth out keys in my experience.

Ellipse wrote: 06 Feb 2025, 21:32 After reviewing your additional notes and photos, I can't really diagnose whether there is an issue from here so it would be great if you could wash all the keys (soaked in water, not only wiped by hand) and send the full set back to me for testing. The parts must have all lube and debris removed. (Ultrasonic bath cleaning with dish soap would be best, if you have it)

I will send you a new set as a replacement. Please email me the tracking number after you have sent it back, and let me know if you have any questions with the above steps.

I also suggest cleaning out the barrels with a cotton swab / Q tip and 99% rubbing alcohol before reinstalling the new set. I have found that this helps Model M keyboards as well to improve smoothness.

However I do think that this is just something to do with the typing style you noted, pressing on the edges of the keys, that is more evident with the new production keys which may have slightly tighter tolerances in terms of space between key stem and barrel compared to your particular F122. As I mentioned, the keys should be more difficult to press on the edges than in the center, based on IBM's design, and I'd imagine everyone else has not noticed such an issue because they don't type near the edges of the keys. From what you have described, this is either an issue with one bad key set or due to abnormal usage patterns, so when I receive your set back I should know one way or the other.

Ellipse,

This is going to be complicated. I don't have an ultrasonic cleaner, so I can't ultrasonic clean them before sending them back. Secondly, at least initially, the keys only seem to be scratchy in their usual barrels, so I doubt you'll feel the same thing i you install them in a keyboard and try it out. However, you would be able to get a better look at them. Swapping the keys around or moving them to my F122 does not cause the same scratchiness. Third, my keyboard is a combination of standard keys, Icon keys, keys with lube (large keys around the edges) and keys without. Instead of trying to explain it, here's a picture of the current state .

With that in mind, tell me what you do and don't want back. I highly doubt though a new key set will behave any differently over time though if they are ultimately all the same. The same issue will likely just resurface after a few months of daily use.

Regarding some more photos and some more information on the wear:

Upon close inspection of the keys, there are 4 distinct spots that are wearing on all 4 key corners. The wear is occurring on the "corners" of the stem from the bottom of the step up to several mm from the bottom of the keycap. You can see that outlined the photo below in red on a bad key, green on a good key.
While the keys with the dry lube are not scratchy at all, you can see that same contact/wear patch happening easier on them because of where it rubs off. I would be very curious to hear from any other new Model F owners see this same wear pattern on their heavily used keys. If you can, please pop a few keys off and have a look for me. Surely it can't just be me. I double checked and found that this wear pattern is not occurring at all on my F122 keys even after 40 years despite looking nearly identical. Blaming it on my "typing style" is as absurd sounding as Apple telling people they were holding their iPhone 4s wrong back in 2010. If there is a manufacturing problem, materials issue, or tolerance problem, then that is what it is is and should be addressed as such. And if there is one, then it should affect everyone with that same batch of components equally. Whether they notice it or not is inconsequential. Either the wear is occurring prematurely or it isn't.

I type on old Alps keyboards, Model Ms, Original Model Fs, A handful of different Cherry MX switches all the same way and this seems to be the only keyboard that has a problem with it. I type quickly (110wpm) but surely my typing style along with resonators's isn't all that unique compared to everyone else. And to be clear, I'm not typing at the edges of the keys all day. The issue is that the heavily used keys become scratchy and have more resistance than the non-scratchy keys. When typing quickly it causes missed letters because those keys bind and don't press down all the way. That's obviously not the case with ctrl, alt, tab, those just feel bad when pressed slowly. The feeling is exactly like typing on a dirty Alps keyboard on those keys when they are pressed in just the right way. Chryrosran22 knows what I'm talking about.

After reviewing your additional notes and photos, I can't really diagnose whether there is an issue from here so it would be great if you could wash all the keys (soaked in water, not only wiped by hand) and send the full set back to me for testing. The parts must have all lube and debris removed. (Ultrasonic bath cleaning with dish soap would be best, if you have it)

I will send you a new set as a replacement. Please email me the tracking number after you have sent it back, and let me know if you have any questions with the above steps.

I also suggest cleaning out the barrels with a cotton swab / Q tip and 99% rubbing alcohol before reinstalling the new set. I have found that this helps Model M keyboards as well to improve smoothness.

However I do think that this is just something to do with the typing style you noted, pressing on the edges of the keys, that is more evident with the new production keys which may have slightly tighter tolerances in terms of space between key stem and barrel compared to your particular F122. As I mentioned, the keys should be more difficult to press on the edges than in the center, based on IBM's design, and I'd imagine everyone else has not noticed such an issue because they don't type near the edges of the keys. From what you have described, this is either an issue with one bad key set or due to abnormal usage patterns, so when I receive your set back I should know one way or the other.