What is the Lightest, Highest Actuating, Clicky Switch?

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Muirium
µ

06 Nov 2023, 13:47

I was just thinking about this and realised I don't know the answer.

Attributes I’m looking for:
  • Light key-feel, with smoothness highly preferred
  • Actuation is high and early in the stroke
  • Actuation coincides with the click/tactile event
  • Clicky preferred but tactile also interesting
  • The sharper the tactility the better
Off the top of my head, the best switch judged by these criteria is "Blue Monterey" SMK. I quite like them, but they're not an all-time classic switch for me. The sound's a bit "snap crackle pop" for my taste. They don't have that delicious Alps fullness.

See, I've been typing on NEC blue ovals for the first time lately. I expected something a bit more like the above from them. Can't say they quite deliver for me, either though. They fail as badly as my otherwise beloved Space Invaders in the "actuation coincides with click" department! So easy to set off both switches with a gentle squeeze, without passing the click. Besides that, NEC blue ovals still fall a good bit short of Blue Alps SKCM for me in sound and outright feel. I do love OG clicky Alps, they're good and simultaneous and fire quite high, but what about something even lighter?

My all-time favourite clicky switch—IBM Model F—scores very highly indeed on smoothness and sharpness. Click is truly simultaneous with actuation, so perfect score there. But they actuate quite low down, though, and I know there are lighter choices too.

How effective are modern click-bar switches at all this? And what else am I overlooking? Don't tell me I must get into Omrons! :lol:

User avatar
thefarside

06 Nov 2023, 19:49

The lightest switch I’ve ever used was the Matias dampened linear. It has an actuation force of 35g with a little hint of tactility from the switch plate. It was too light for me - I was triggering keys just by resting my fingers on the keyboard - but I think the springs would make for a light tactile or clicky switch if out into an alps.
https://matias.ca/switches/linear/

I’ve heard Kailh makes good box switches with a variety of actuation forces and tactility, but I’m sure there’s a lot of MX switches to chose from.
https://switchandclick.com/kailh-switch ... ive-guide/

User avatar
mmm

06 Nov 2023, 21:44

Keycaps mounted directly on the levers of microswitches is what you are looking for. In terms of smoothness, being ultralight, high actuation, and actuation tied with sound nothing beats the switches in my Microwriter. The tactility is very subtle though.

Which microswitches exactly? Good question

But is it feasible to have an entire keyboard with these as they protrude in a direction? Good question

User avatar
Karmel

07 Nov 2023, 17:23

If you haven't tried click bar switches yet, they'd probably fit this criteria. I've only used box navies which are both the stiffest and most tactile, but pinks or whites would probably work out better. The actuation and click are both very high up in the key travel, though they're not perfectly in line.

User avatar
engr

08 Nov 2023, 03:33

Karmel wrote:
07 Nov 2023, 17:23
If you haven't tried click bar switches yet, they'd probably fit this criteria. I've only used box navies which are both the stiffest and most tactile, but pinks or whites would probably work out better. The actuation and click are both very high up in the key travel, though they're not perfectly in line.
Judging from HaaTa's force curves, box whites' actuation height is about the same as of clicky Alps', 2mm or so.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

08 Nov 2023, 21:36

Interesting suggestions. Perhaps I should have added “full travel” to my feature requirements. I’m looking for an early click followed by a lot of after-travel. Typing on mouse buttons doesn’t sound like my cup of tea.

The idea is try something clicky that’s as easy to *not* bottom out on as Topre. I’ve been using my HHKB a lot lately and returning to clicky contact switches surprised me. I’ve my first hot swappable board due later this month and variety is on my mind…
engr wrote:
08 Nov 2023, 03:33
Karmel wrote:
07 Nov 2023, 17:23
If you haven't tried click bar switches yet, they'd probably fit this criteria. I've only used box navies which are both the stiffest and most tactile, but pinks or whites would probably work out better. The actuation and click are both very high up in the key travel, though they're not perfectly in line.
Judging from HaaTa's force curves, box whites' actuation height is about the same as of clicky Alps', 2mm or so.
TNT wrote:
20 Aug 2023, 21:41
And it comes with Kailh Box Whites. That's nice!
Apparently I will soon get to test this for myself. Looking forward to it!

User avatar
Wolfi77W

09 Nov 2023, 09:14

Muirium wrote:
06 Nov 2023, 13:47
How effective are modern click-bar switches at all this? And what else am I overlooking? Don't tell me I must get into Omrons! :lol:
I have a Costar CSK-1101S in clean condition filled with Omrons and they consistently actuate well before the tactile click, which is really a shame cause they are surprisingly smooth, have a nice sharp tactility, have little to no binding at all when pressed off-center and of course there's the sound that they're infamous for too.

As others have suggested click bars is probably among your best bets. I have tried Box Navies and Pinks but I let go of the boards with those switches some time ago. I could swap out the Zeal Clickiez in my hotswap Keychron V6 for some loose Chosfox Arctic Fox switches I have laying around and report back later on.

User avatar
TNT

09 Nov 2023, 09:24

I really recommend Kailh Box switches for clickies, so it's nice that you get to try them soon. Apart from Jades, the Box White Owls and the Chosfox Arctic Fox (which are both variants of Box Switches) are also getting talked about a lot, so it might be worth giving them a shot too. Especially the Arctic Foxes, as they are supposedly even lighter than Box White while having a more pronounced tactility and click.

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Muirium
µ

09 Nov 2023, 09:25

Noted. Where's a cheap source for loose switches in this part of the world? ;)

User avatar
TNT

09 Nov 2023, 09:37

Well, that might be a problem for the Arctic Foxes, as they are the more exotic ones. Other than that, small quantities of Owls, Whites, Jades, Pinks, and so on can be regularily found on Mechmarket, Community Discords, and in case of Germany even Craigslist/Kleinanzeigen (I don't know what the UK equivalent of that would be). If you really just wanna try, maybe ask around whether or not someone in the community has a switch tester they'd be willing to lend you + some of the switches you're interested in.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

09 Nov 2023, 09:52

Yeah, I hear you. I’m not trying to pinch pennies too hard, what I’m really on about is His Thieving Majesty's Customs & Excise hitting me for more than an order's worth. They just love to pounce on little padded envelopes and parcels unless deftly declared. A £15 gift, you say? We'll destroy it unless you pony up £50 for handling!

I'd likely be best ordering straight from China, which somehow seems to be a tax-free partner as far as they're concerned, quite unlike Europe or America. :roll:

Anyway, I’m much more interested in a small selection of loose switches than a tester. The keyboard is the tester. :D

davkol

09 Nov 2023, 10:21

Low-profile switches still have 3mm travel overall. Have you tried Kailh Choc or anything like that yet? The clicky variant has a fairly good reputation. Some people find them stiffer than the normal-profile counterparts though, despite very similar specifications on paper.

fanf

09 Nov 2023, 10:41

A couple of places to look for switches are https://www.serpentkeys.co.uk/ and https://mechbox.co.uk/ - the latter has chosfox and arctic fox in sample quantities.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

09 Nov 2023, 11:14

So I see! What a smorgasboard. ;)

Fortunately, perhaps, the prices are high enough to put me off tasting switches to my heart's content. I mean, a keyboard where every key is a different switch type is perhaps not as wise as the candy store window has me think…
davkol wrote:
09 Nov 2023, 10:21
Low-profile switches still have 3mm travel overall. Have you tried Kailh Choc or anything like that yet? The clicky variant has a fairly good reputation. Some people find them stiffer than the normal-profile counterparts though, despite very similar specifications on paper.
No, I've never had any luck with short throw switches, so I've not looked into MX compatibles like that. Stiffness is a no-no for me, too. What I like best about Model F isn't its sound but its precise, sharp click and smooth travel. If I could have that, but higher up in key travel, then I'd be delighted. Bottoming out is all but guaranteed on buckling spring for me.

fanf

09 Nov 2023, 11:53

I recently got a sample of Zeal Clickiez to try out. They have a relatively high actuation point, about 1mm, with a sharp tactile click. The peak tactile force is much higher than the spring force so it’s almost impossible to avoid bottoming out.

If you want a light initial force that increases a lot, to avoid bottoming out, then you need a short spring: less preload = lower initial force. But short springs are hard to find: Cherry Clear and Halo True are the shortest I know of, at 12mm, and I don’t know of any after-market springs that short.

I tried putting a Cherry Clear spring into one of the Clickiez, to see if it became possible to avoid bottoming out. It sort-of worked, but unfortunately the Clickiez have a different stem design with a larger diameter, so I ended up crushing the Clear spring into the bottom of the switch housing.

User avatar
Muirium
µ

09 Nov 2023, 11:56

Zeal Clickiez (winces while typing the name) sound worth a shot. I've a bag of MX clears somewhere in storage, as well as MX whites and blues and greens. This board is going to get bastardised, no matter what. First time hotswapper. :lol:

Bottoming out isn't something that bothers me, really, I mean I do it almost always! But I like the idea of playing around with it a bit, now I've got the chance to experiment.

User avatar
Aruberon

09 Nov 2023, 14:27

Sounds like you would enjoy Boba U4Ts as well, very tactile, super smooth stock and just generally regarded as some of the best modern tactile switches, about 1.3-1.5 mm actuation though.
Being long pole also makes it harder to bottom out despite the sharp tactile event.

Honestly its hard to find a decent feeling and sounding clicky switch in the modern department once you have felt vintage clickies, the actuating during the click event also rarely happens.

While im not the most experienced with modern switches, I do have a set of these in one of my few modern MX boards, and im very pleased with them overall to the point where I got the wife a board for work with the silenced version. (she keeps rejecting all my vintage propositions and demands windows keys)

apastuszak

09 Nov 2023, 17:59

Boba U4Ts are replaced by Gazeew U4T switches. Due to switch yellowing issues Gazeew discontinued the Boba U4T.

There are still plenty of Boba U4Ts in the supply channel. Since I have keycaps over my switches, I really don't care if they yellow.


User avatar
Wolfi77W

10 Nov 2023, 06:23

Zeal Clickiez has a really harsh bottom out. As someone who has tried Box Navies and also regularly bottoms out with most switch types I thought it wouldn't bother me, and while they feel satisfying to type on, the harsh bottom out gets tiring pretty quick. I still prefer Alps SKCM, buckling springs and space invaders for extended typing sessions, especially Blue Alps. It's still something to try out though and use every once in a while if you want a couple clicky mx based boards.

As for prices for Chosfox Arctic Fox, keep an eye out at aliexpress if you're willing to get it from there. I got a pack of 110 back in April with a considerable 35% or so discount.

User avatar
hellothere

11 Nov 2023, 19:03

I was and am disappointed with the Zeal Clickez. I find them stiff and they also feel like they're going to bind on you at any moment. I have the "light" weighted version, not the super heavy ones.

I bought myself a Razer Huntsman Tenkeyless the other day. It has clicky Razer optical switches. It's not terrible, but I think it's kinda stiff and the RGB is definitely nothing to write home about. I'm going to put it on sale, eventually. I got mine on ebay for $40 shipped.

I do appreciate the recommendations in this thread. I might buy some switches after Christmas!

Mu, I have an amber Omron KB for sale ...

User avatar
Muirium
µ

13 Nov 2023, 11:57

hellothere wrote:
11 Nov 2023, 19:03
Mu, I have an amber Omron KB for sale ...
I knew I was just asking for this! :lol: Got a link, pics, price etc.?

User avatar
Muirium
µ

22 Nov 2023, 21:29

So I need something like this to actually pop these hotswap switches out?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0BLCCX759

First time swapper… :oops:

User avatar
hellothere

24 Nov 2023, 23:33

Muirium wrote:
13 Nov 2023, 11:57
hellothere wrote:
11 Nov 2023, 19:03
Mu, I have an amber Omron KB for sale ...
I knew I was just asking for this! :lol: Got a link, pics, price etc.?
I'll put it up on ebay tomorrow.

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