My impressions on some vintage keyboards

[stratokaster]

Recently I scored some wins on a local ebay-like site and bought some vintage mechanical keyboards. I decided to post my impressions here.

1) Fujitsu FKB-4700.

This keyboard is heavy, sturdy and very well-built. The keycaps are sublime (dye-subbed PBT with nice and clean typography). The integrated LEDs are a nice touch. They are a very attractive shade of green as well.

Fujitsu Peerless switches, however, are only meh. The click is nice and not too loud, but the key action is scratchy before the activation point and somewhat mushy afterwards. Definitely not something I'd like to type a novel on.

2) NTC KB-6251EM with yellow Mitsumi Miniature Mechanical switches.

This keyboard is not nice at all. It's very light, the case is flexible and prone to creaking. The switches are PCB-mounted. There is no backplate and the PCB is not secured to the case, it's simply sandwiched between the halves. The keycaps are God-awful: they are made of thin ABS and pad-printed.

The switches are also meh. They are not clicky at all. The tactile bump is present, but it's somewhat indistinctive. When I'm typing at full speed, the tactility is further reduced. Some people refer to Cherry MX Browns as "dirty Reds," and those Mitsumi switches are more like "dirty Blacks." Also I need to strike the keys dead-center, otherwise they tend to stuck. (Maybe it's time to lube the switches?)

3) Chicony KB-5191 with SMK Montereys. Now those are very nice switches: clicky and tactile, light and springy... When I type on this keyboard, it feels like I'm dancing with my fingers. Soooooo nice.

The keyboard itself is not some paragon of craftsmanship, but its build quality is passable (unlike that of the NTC). Unfortunately, it doesn't support NKRO, it's more like 2KRO or 3KRO at best. When I'm pounding on it really fast, it starts to miss keypresses, which is a shame, because otherwise this is such a nice keyboard to type on.

4) IBM Selectric Touch (aka Model M2).

This keyboards is rather flimsy, but seems relatively well-made. The key action is VERY nice. Now I understand why IBM buckling spring keyboards are very well-esteemed.

Unfortunately, my sample (which was still in its original wrapping) is completely dead. When I plug it in, nothing happens, the LEDs don't come on and the keyboard doesn't respond to keypresses.

[hypkx]

Thanks for sharing your expressions, model M2 is well known for its electronic problems.
Maybe this helps you to repair it:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5065.0

[stratokaster]

Thanks for sharing your expressions, model M2 is well known for its electronic problems.
Maybe this helps you to repair it:
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5065.0

Thank you! I will take a look.

[andrewjoy]

Its the 2 electrolytic caps( as in capasators not keycaps ) , replace them and you will be good

[Chyros]

I haven't tried Mitsumis yet, but the other three boards mirror my thoughts exactly. I've also had several dead M2s.

[stratokaster]

I haven't tried Mitsumis yet, but the other three boards mirror my thoughts exactly. I've also had several dead M2s.

Thanks! I remember watching your review before buying my Dell AT101W (which is still my favorite vintage keyboard, all things considered, even though I switched to using QFR w/MX Blues as my daily driver because of its compact size). I must say I admire your accent and your voice!

[Chyros]

I haven't tried Mitsumis yet, but the other three boards mirror my thoughts exactly. I've also had several dead M2s.

Thanks! I remember watching your review before buying my Dell AT101W (which is still my favorite vintage keyboard, all things considered, even though I switched to using QFR w/MX Blues as my daily driver because of its compact size). I must say I admire your accent and your voice!

Thank you very much, glad you found the videos helpful .

[terrycherry]

I haven't tried Mitsumis yet, but the other three boards mirror my thoughts exactly. I've also had several dead M2s.

I fixed the M2 issue few months ago. It's works. I'm fixed the spring on it but the press feeling still not good, maybe my M2 is too old.
Model M is the best ever.

[Chyros]

I haven't tried Mitsumis yet, but the other three boards mirror my thoughts exactly. I've also had several dead M2s.

I fixed the M2 issue few months ago. It's works. I'm fixed the spring on it but the press feeling still not good, maybe my M2 is too old.
Model M is the best ever.

Terry my friend, it's time for you to get a Model F .

[klikkyklik]

Someone had to say it!

[klikkyklik]

@stratokaster: concerning your FKB-4700, what adapter did you use if I may ask?

[stratokaster]

@stratokaster: concerning your FKB-4700, what adapter did you use if I may ask?

I have not adapted it to my Mac (yet), I used it with an old PC I keep around for playing DOS games

[Muirium]

Translation: it's AT or PS/2, right?

[klikkyklik]

Right, mine are AT and are verified to work on an old PC with an AT connector, but they won't even work adapted to PS/2, let alone USB. Weird.

[chzel]

Maybe it's XT then?

[klikkyklik]

Maybe it's XT then?

Negative, the computer that does work with those boards is AT, not XT. I was just looking for a "fast answer" - and haven't attempted to chase the issue down further.

[Muirium]

Sounds like an XT keyboard to me, regardless. Why? Because AT is electrically identical to PS/2. Only the connector is different. AT keyboards should always work with PS/2 adapters. XT, meanwhile, is a prickly beast: same DIN 5 connector as AT but completely different protocol.

XT and AT aren't perfect names for the two, referring to IBM computer models rather than the keyboards specifically. I reckon that's what's going on here. Confusion over an AT computer that happens to also speak XT!

[stratokaster]

Mine actually works quite alright with a passive PS/2 adapter, as it should be. I think something is wrong with either your keyboard or your adapter.

[terrycherry]

I haven't tried Mitsumis yet, but the other three boards mirror my thoughts exactly. I've also had several dead M2s.

I fixed the M2 issue few months ago. It's works. I'm fixed the spring on it but the press feeling still not good, maybe my M2 is too old.
Model M is the best ever.

Terry my friend, it's time for you to get a Model F .

Yes,I will but not this time. I brought 10+ keyboard in these two months, I should save the money next month until the price get more reasonable.

[seebart]

Yes,I will but not this time. I brought 10+ keyboard in these two months, I should save the money next month until the price get more reasonable.

Very sensible argument I should follow more often, although Model F should not be missed.

[klikkyklik]

Sounds like an XT keyboard to me, regardless.

I keep dismissing the XT protocol possibility, but that's because sometimes I find that I close my mind for no apparent reason. I'll call it "unintentional stubbornness" for lack of a better description.

It's a very valid argument and it's the only thing that makes sense; honestly I hadn't realized that there were computer BIOS's that spoke both protocols. I will have to double up my efforts to locate a DIP or switch or jumper on/in the keyboard that switches the protocol to AT; I suppose another possibility is that the specific brand (Triumph) "hard-wired" it. I'll see what I can find.

Thanks, Muirium, chzel, and stratokaster!

[andrewjoy]

I have always wondered why you have different scan-codes.

They all include the same character set. Also AT is closer to scancode set 3 ( the terminal one) than it is XT, i am guessing the terminal one came first so why make the XT one, it makes no seance to me, reduce your costs, dont bother to make a new one , just supply every single XT with a F122 or beamspring

Also now that memory and the likes are so cheap, why not change to a new one that just sends unicode ? simple and easy and no need to mess around for different OS. You could then have pretty much anything you wanted, even a little poo emoji!

[klikkyklik]

...even a little poo emoji!

LOL!

[Chyros]

You know what's even more ironic? The computer translates everything you send to it right back to XT anyway Oo .

[Muirium]

Because of Terry, I've pulled out my Model M2 for an evening. I don't use it much. I mean, I have real Model M SSKs and Model Fs aplenty:



But M2's not so bad. I still enjoy this keyboard. It's a bit balky, not nearly as smooth and sharp as its ancestors, but it's a decent enough attempt, and so light! Well, the keyboard itself is light. The weight of the switches, meanwhile, is the heaviest buckling spring of all! I still prefer it to MX. Any MX, not just the nippy clickies. And though the stabs aren't as slick as on my older IBM's, they're still better feeling than Cherry's! Quite something for plastic.

The low profile caps keep reminding me of other keyboards, besides IBMs. Usually you can't mistake a buckling spring board for anything else, without even pressing a key, as the caps feel immediately different as soon as you approach them. This one, though, feels more like regular Cherry-style PBT. Intriguing.

As for Mitsumi miniature: you're right that they're pretty crap in a keyboard. A real pity, as I have a few loose switches and they seem awesome in the hand. They're buttery smooth tactiles, with an almost Topre-like feel. These guys are why I hunted down a board full of them from Cindy, a Chicony that immediately disappointed! The board's build quality is awful, so it's not all the switches fault, but they sure do bind. I like to think that it's possible to save them by building a custom, with tiny caps to reduce the off-axis binding. Yet the binding is so bad on the Chicony, I have to wonder.

[Touch_It]

I will 100 % agree with you on the Chicony and the M2. I own (and use) both. Infact I am typing this on my M2 (witch I recently found again). When you have enough keyboards it is indeed possible to loose one. I will say I absolutely love the feel of the M2. It is definitely different from the Model M. Lesser build quality, but the key feel is awesome. I'm almost in a position to say I like it better, but I'm not quite sure yet.

[stratokaster]

Another week, another vintage keyboard. This time it's an Alps AT102 (FCC ID GYIAT101-102) with Alps SKCM Salmon.

For a long time my favourite vintage keyboard, all things considered, was my Dell AT101W: it's much better than any RD or scissor switch board, it supports full NKRO, is easy to find and relatively inexpensive. I know that Alps SKCM Black is probably the worst switch Alps ever made, but I still prefer it to, say, Cherry MX Brown.

The Alps board in question looks almost the same as Dell AT101W and belongs to the same "Alps Bigfoot" family. Its build quality is also the same; in short, it's built like a tank. The keycaps are much better than those of Dell AT101W, because they are PBT and dye-subbed (Dell's keycaps are total rubbish, they are thin lasered ABS).

Alps SKCM Salmon switches are also vastly better than SKCM Black. Their tactile response is much sharper. The switch is also noticeably heavier than Alps Black, but it's much smoother and there is less binding on off-center strokes. To my ears, SKCM Salmon is also slightly louder than SKCM Black: the Blacks are almost silent unless I'm bottoming them out (which I tend to do because of their indistinct tactility), but the Salmons produce a sort of very muted click right around the activation point.

Still, I probably won't use this Alps board as my daily driver for the same reason I stopped using my Dell AT101W: it's so huge that when I'm sitting at the desk in my Kiev apartment, my mouse is somewhere near Moscow, which is a bit inconvenient.

[stratokaster]

Focus FK-2002 with Alps SKCM White.

This is my first encounter with white complicated Alps. And this is clearly the love on first touch, but more on that later.

The keyboard itself is ok. It's relatively well-made, but it's also lightweight (compared to something like Dell AT101W or Alps Model 102). It also takes much less space than any Alps Bigfoot board which is a huge win in my opinion (desk real estate is at premium at my headquarters). On my keyboard the integrated dust cover is missing, but overall the board is in good condition with no signs of yellowing. The layout is French AZERTY; I expected doubleshot keycaps, but sadly they are pad-printed. But it doesn't really matter since I have at least two full sets of Alps dye-subbed PBT keycaps and numerous sets of Tai-Hao ABS doubleshots.

The switches themselves are delicious. They are significantly more tactile than tactile Alps switches and they have a very nice and loud low-pitched "click." To my ears, in terms of sound they are vastly superior to clicky Cherry MX. There's a bit of Alps characteristic binding on off-center strokes, but it's not too annoying. Also it seems that both the bump and the activation point are significantly higher than in Cherry MX Blue, which makes Alps SKCM White feel lighter than their stated activation force of 70 cN.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with this keyboard and would have no objections against using it as my daily driver.

[Muirium]

I was nodding along in agreement — mmm, yes, complicated Alps, juicy, subtle, glorious things, hear hear — then I read your earlier post where you don't like salmons as much as whites. And by jove old boy, I don't know where you're coming from now!

Kidding aside, complicated Alps are a complicated world I'm exploring myself as well. You're on the right track. Found yourself some blues yet, old bean? The legend…

[seebart]

Overall, I'm very satisfied with this keyboard and would have no objections against using it as my daily driver.

One of my favorite daily drivers of all. Glad to see you like it also.

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Focus_FK-2002