Model M keycap compatibility

[stratokaster]

Now that I'm an owner of a Unicomp SpaceSaver M (thanks, czarek!), I have some questions.

1) Are keycaps compatible between Unicomp Model M boards and earlier IBM ones?

2) Are keycaps from rubber dome Model Ms compatible with buckling spring Model Ms?

I ask those questions because right now there is a cheap rubber dome Model M for sale on a local auction site, and it has a full set of beautiful Cyrillic keycaps. If they're compatible with my Unicomp board, I think it will be a great idea to buy it and put those keycaps to good use. It will also give me some redundant keycaps to experiment with.

[guk]

1. Yes

2. No

[stratokaster]

That's a pity. Thanks, guk!

[XMIT]

Yeah, they're really not compatible at all. The rubber dome key caps are all single piece and have an additional piece of plastic where the spring should go.

[hypkx]

I have another question about keycap compatibility. Are the keycaps from a IBM buckling spring typewriter compatible with a model m?

[guk]

Yes, mostly. Popular source for code keys.

[terrycherry]

Compatible with M2 if need but looks ugly

[stratokaster]

I have an old M2, but it has German keycaps and I think its keycaps are ugly compared to the Unicomp's.

[andrewjoy]

Thats high praise for unicomp caps ! I think they look crap compared to IBM caps but never seen an M2 in the flesh.

[fohat]

Unicomp supposedly bought a new dyesub machine and improved its quality. The last ones that I bought, a couple of months ago, were nice.

The M2 has excellent qualities and terrible design blunders.

One of the worst is that it does not use M/F keys and has that stupid "Row-X, Profile-Y" crap, and the stabilizers are weird.

[Muirium]

The M2's different, sure, but not all bad. I'm quite fond of mine. Nicer caps than the Unicomps I've seen.

[bhtooefr]

Huh, I didn't realize it actually had separate profiles. (It only has two, though - function row, and everything else. I guess IBM figured that that compensated enough for the lack of curvature.)

Really, the M2 needs to be thought of in the context of what it was - an extreme cost-reduced implementation of buckling spring. (If anyone's got IBM spare parts price lists for the PS/1 line from 1990-1994 or so, that'd be nice...) The fundamental design is very much comparable to modern rubber domes, yet it's got nearly all of the good feel of a Model M. (The cheap stabilizers are cheap and weird, yes. But, they're easy to assemble. Disassemble, not so much, but hey.) And, based on the lack of yellowing, they even used PBT for the keycaps, on such a cost-reduced board.

Edit: It's worth noting that the Select-Ease keyboard (read: M15, so M2 technology internally, but with all the adjustability hardware) was sold by Lexmark for the same price as the full Model M, apparently - $179.

Edit 2: Trying to find citations that have everything in the same place, but this article mentions a few keyboards.

Lexmark Quiet Touch Keyboard (Model M4, I think): $89
Lexmark Streamlined Keyboard (Model M1/M2): $99
Lexmark Enhanced 101-Key Keyboard with Integrated 25mm Trackball (Model M5-2) or 16mm Trackball (Model M5-1): $149 (that does not make sense, with the $179 price for a Model M being a 1994 price).

Or, better yet, how about some 1992 prices for everything relevant? An IBM Enhanced 101 Key Keyboard (read: Model M) was $217, and a Space Saving Keyboard (yes, that SSK) was $156. And, the Selectric Touch Keyboard (the Model M2) was $177.

[Parjánya]

Completely off-topic, but gosh... reading an old magazine like that and remembering that I saw everything there when it was new, I feel ancient : o )

[stratokaster]

There is some sprue on Unicomp's keycaps, that's for sure, but it's mostly invisible. The Esc keycap on my keyboard had uneven edges which were visible (I removed excess plastic with a sharp knife which fixed the problem). Otherwise, the keycaps feel nice and the lettering is very crisp. Overall the keycaps on my Unicomp look only slightly worse than my Alps PBT dye-subbed keycaps.

Model M2 on the other hand has stupid one-piece low profile keycaps which I really don't like.

[Snowdog993]

Unicomp supposedly bought a new dyesub machine and improved its quality. The last ones that I bought, a couple of months ago, were nice.

The M2 has excellent qualities and terrible design blunders.

One of the worst is that it does not use M/F keys and has that stupid "Row-X, Profile-Y" crap, and the stabilizers are weird.

I think I wrote something about that a while back, I am still unsure if they are using the new machines on existing keyboards and are flushing the older stock out before using them....
Except when ordering custom keycaps like in this example:

[andrewjoy]

Or, better yet, how about some 1992 prices for everything relevant? An IBM Enhanced 101 Key Keyboard (read: Model M) was $217, and a Space Saving Keyboard (yes, that SSK) was $156. And, the Selectric Touch Keyboard (the Model M2) was $177.

Hmm , if the SSK was cheaper , why did they ship the 101 with all of the PS/2 line ? If i was IBM i would ship with the SSK and then make the 101 the option. ITs also cheaper so if you are replacing a keyboard why would you not buy the SSK ?

Just think how happy we would all be now if the SSK was the common one and the 101 was rare! A few years ago you could have picked up an SSK on ebay for £20

[bhtooefr]

I would guess that it was IBM being conservative, especially after the failure of the PCjr (which didn't have a numpad). And, the numpad was (and still is) rather heavily used for data entry. Do note that PC manufacturers still ship 104/105-key keyboards by default, even though they're more expensive to manufacture, typically.

(As an aside, the header I'm getting right now is of a SSK box.)

[andrewjoy]

Most manufacturers don't even ship a keyboard!

And honestly , looking at the quality of OEM boards nowadays thats a good thing! Unicomp should make keyboards for lenovo , they did take over IBM desktop/laptop lines! Then possibly we will get black caps again! And Blue Return keys!

[chzel]

(As an aside, the header I'm getting right now is of a SSK box.)

Don't forget that back then PCs were mostly "business machines", and used by companies that dealt with large amounts of numerical data, so the SSK might be considered "crippled" and less desirable.

[andrewjoy]

Thats what the 50 key is for!
http://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_50_Key_Keyboard

Rock that on your left SSK in the middle and a CST trackball on the right !

Your set!

[Muirium]

The SSK might even have been considered a left handed keyboard option. With the bonus that it also appeals to those weirdos who were perfectly fine without a physical numpad all along.

[andrewjoy]

The SSK might even have been considered a left handed keyboard option. With the bonus that it also appeals to those weirdos who were perfectly fine without a physical numpad all along.

Good call, honestly once the mouse came to be common i don't know why they did not move the number pad to the left of the keyboard!

[bhtooefr]

IIRC, the SSK only shipped by default with the PS/2 Model 25, which was really the educational model. There, they were fighting Apple IIs primarily, and only the later models had numpads.

A business machine was definitely expected to have a numpad, and in fact Apple ended up putting a numpad connector on the //e's motherboard, so people could bring their own. And, the PS/2 was a business machine, not a home machine (except for the entry-level models, but even those were really just school machines - IBM abandoned the home market after the PCjr's failure, until the PS/1 launch). And, the PS/1's keyboard (the Model M2) had a numpad, too.

Also, tenkeyless boards shipped as an option for the 3290 terminal (the unsaver, for one). But, in that application, I'd expect it was a case of either executive toy or sysadmin terminal.

[chzel]

Good call, honestly once the mouse came to be common i don't know why they did not move the number pad to the left of the keyboard!

Why would anyone doing proper data entry want the numpad on the non dominant hand?
I mean proper data entry in a spreadsheet or database. Input numbers and enter to change cell, and the occasional tab or arrows.