deskthority

While killing time waiting for some Round 4 SPH to arrive, I decided to see if I could make ONE acceptable keyboard out of three I had:

Apple ADB Keyboard
- originally shipped with the Apple IIgs
- salmon (?) alps
- very nice to look at, from the Frog Design / snow white design language days. Typing on? Not so great: key tops are smaller, and it matters. Also, 2 fatal (to me) flaws: the ` key is directly left of the spacebar (so I hit it when trying to do CMD- combinations); it has arrows in a single row LEFT - RIGHT - DOWN - UP. I tried to use this at work, and loved the feel of the switches, but had to give it up pretty quickly.

Apple M0116
- originally shipped with the Mac SE.
- salmon (?) alps
- same fatal layout as the Apple ADB Keyboard. I wouldn't be surprised if the PCBs were exactly the same. Even the off switch is located in the same spot, over the 5/6 keys.

Elecom TK-M96JP
- black alps (clickier!)
- ADB connection
- flatter keys than the 2 apple keyboards.
- better layout: ` in the right place, caps lock is tiny and at extreme lower left, and arrow keys, while not in a T, at least have the UP and DOWN keys above/below each other.
- we've had this keyboard forever, but it has an old Japanese key layout, with the kana symbols on the keyboard. I have always loved the feel of this keyboard, but the keys were too busy to look at. My goal was to see if I could switch some keys around, and make this keyboard work for me. I was also hoping I could get an interesting visual and physical difference between the modifier/outside edge keys and the rest of the keyboard, by leaving the original Elecom keycaps for the outer edge, and using M0116 keys for the inner keys.

Attempt 1: Weird, but not crazy.

Before: After: Elecom keys have lower profile: I am actually disappointed that the difference in keys wasn't more noticable. functionally, it works well. I'm not going to say I like the cursor arrangement, but I am guessing I could make it work. maybe.

Attempt 2: Ok, that's Just Dumb

Apple ADB Keyboard: So the first layout wasn't that interesting, how can I make it weirder? Ah, yes, add weird chiclet keys from the IIgs keyboard. So this was a massive FAIL, but it did reveal something interesting: the IIgs keyboard has a "fake" curve built into it. The board appears to be flat, and the curve is added by making each row of keys higher/lower. On the top row, the switches are rotated 90 degrees! (which was a bummer, because my first plan was just to convert the ` and entire numpad to the IIgs keys). I tried to take some pictures showing the backs of the key caps. Stems have variable height: Resulting Mess: Attempt 3: Add in an Extended II?

If the SPH keys don't get here and stop me first, I think I'll try swapping keycaps from an Extended I or Extended II keyboard. I could replace the "clear" on the numpad with a delete key then, and get a "high" ` key. That should make it fairly normal looking, but also with a little key remapping, fairly usable.

The

warty wrote: Apple ADB Keyboard
- originally shipped with the Apple IIgs
- salmon (?) alps
...

IMG_0425.jpg

I think that those are orange Alps. At least they look a bit darker than the salmon Alps I have. I have not tried them and compared to salmon, but I have heard people say that they are very close in feel.

warty wrote: Elecom TK-M96JP
- black alps (clickier!)

Actually, no. A clicky switch makes a distinct "click" sound that (is supposed to) coincide with actuation somewhere in the middle of the stroke. Click is not the sound that a switch does when you slam it into the bottom - that sound is often called "clack", however...

warty wrote:On the top row, the switches are rotated 90 degrees!

Oh.. Interesting. You can see this on the function key row on the AEK and AEKII. It looks also in your picture that the AIIGS keyboards have more curvature in the keys than the Mac keyboards.

Does that Elecom board have an FCC ID on it? I'm wondering if it's a Strong Man keyboard — it's the same shape as some of theirs, and it's a pretty distinctive design. (Sejin also made a similar keyboard, but with Futaba switches. Strong Man were a major Alps/Alps clone keyboard OEM.)

Here's a virtually identical Strong Man — the main difference is that yours has a thin bezel:

http://park10.wakwak.com/~jpspace/key/k ... 102mj.html

Probably simplified black Alps then — one that I've yet to have the pleasure of trying.

Here's a photo of the back. We would have bought that in Japan, sometime before 1996 I think.

That sticker is all that's on the back.

Sticker says:
Full Keyboard for Macintosh
TK-M96JP
(serial number line)
Elecom Ltd. Made in Taiwan.

Findecanor wrote: I think that those are orange Alps. At least they look a bit darker than the salmon Alps I have. I have not tried them and compared to salmon, but I have heard people say that they are very close in feel.

Both the M0116 and IIGS keyboard look the same orange/salmon to me, but if there's a way to tell (other than disassembling a switch, let me know and I'll try to confirm.

Findecanor wrote: Actually, no. A clicky switch makes a distinct "click" sound that (is supposed to) coincide with actuation somewhere in the middle of the stroke. Click is not the sound that a switch does when you slam it into the bottom - that sound is often called "clack", however...

THanks for clarification. They are indeed not "clicky" like what is it... MX Blues? (i can't remember the colors) that make a click when the switch actuates. I would say it is clack, plus a distinct "sproing" sound after the key is hit. I can only ever hear the sproing of the last key, because it's not that loud, but it is audible, and I don't hear anything like that from the M0116 and IIGS keys. It's not like a Model M spring sound either. Sounds a bit cheap, really, but compared to the Cherry switches that are audible, I prefer it greatly.

On the curve of the board: holding up the M0116 and the IIGS next to each other, the cases curve EXACTLY the same degree, in the same places. But the M0116 key caps on the IIGS keyboard start to "sink down" as you go higher in rows. So maybe internally, the base plate of the M0116 is curved, but the base plate of the IIGS keyboard is flat, and the curve is simulated with the variable height key stems.

warty wrote:Both the M0116 and IIGS keyboard look the same orange/salmon to me, but if there's a way to tell (other than disassembling a switch, let me know and I'll try to confirm.

The two different flavors of IIgs keyboard (A9M0330) I have seen are:
- Made in Japan, "taxi yellow" ALPS switches, which are nice clicky and tactile.
- Made in Taiwan, white or black SMK clone switch (??? forgot already), not clicky and barely tactile.

This one is obviously a third kind. What does the bottom inscription say? I'd bet ot "Made in Japan".

woody wrote:The two different flavors of IIgs keyboard (A9M0330) I have seen are:
- Made in Japan, "taxi yellow" ALPS switches, which are nice clicky and tactile.

That one is not in the Wiki. Are you sure that it has model number A9M0330 ?

warty wrote:Both the M0116 and IIGS keyboard look the same orange/salmon to me, but if there's a way to tell (other than disassembling a switch, let me know and I'll try to confirm.

It's the natural pink colour of salmon, not the orange colour of smoked salmon. See the colour chart here:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Alps_CM#Less_common_colours

Also, this is an M0116 with salmon switches:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Apple_M0116

It's a colour that's hard to describe; some people say "pink", which it is, but "pink" suggests maybe hot pink or magenta instead of Caucasian flesh tone or salmon.

Your keyboards have orange switches.

Thanks for the links. I agree on the salmon/pink/orange thing: after seeing those, these can't be "salmon". The color is definitely less orange than the one shown on that page (it is more "faded"), but it also doesnt' have "ALPS" on it, while that page says salmon is branded with ALPS.

I checked the black in the Elecom, and it has raised alps lettering, so according to that page it is indeed a simplified black.

Here are the backs of the 2 apple keyboards:

Findecanor wrote:

woody wrote:The two different flavors of IIgs keyboard (A9M0330) I have seen are:
- Made in Japan, "taxi yellow" ALPS switches, which are nice clicky and tactile.

That one is not in the Wiki. Are you sure that it has model number A9M0330 ?

Almost, at least according to what I've been researching on the web years ago. But since I don't posses one "Made in Japan", don't trust me at this point.

EDIT: Wiki might as well be true that for the original Japanese run Apple stuck to their (old) internal part numbering scheme.

I found two interesting pictures of the bottom of A9M0330:





Mine is of the former type.