Alps Lubricant FOUND!

headphone_jack

02 Jan 2021, 21:09

Nobody got any kind of patent number from alps. Any kind of patent we found was speculation at best. Do you mean the spec sheet that I got from Threebond after I emailed them directly?

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NeK

02 Jan 2021, 22:32

No, it turns out it was just a misunderstanding due to typo. Anyway, so that patent is not a reliable source, it was just conjecture on our part. Ok that's good to know, because it eliminates the aliminum soap approach.

And to eliminate any further confusion, and unecessary arguing, I will let you know which lubes I am investigating currently and what the "Magic NeKtar" is now. Here are the three lubes I had ordered after my research:

Lube 1: OKS 1110
Lube 2: OKS 477
Lube 3: Nyogel 767A

The first two are from a german industrial lubricant manufacturer, from which I found two greases that were close to what I think should do the trick for ALPS.

I have received those two and have already tested them. The OKS 1110, which I had some hopes for, did not lubricate enough to make any good difference. But, OKS 477 actually did make a good difference, as it did lubricate the switches (and eliminated the dreaded stick-slip friction), far better than anything else that I have already tried.

It does come close - some people, I guess, would say very close - to the original lube, but still, not quite in my opinion... And this is the one that I named Magic NeKtar in the teaser video.

It is certainly a big improvement in every way, and it is not affecting the switch negatively in sound or feel. It is especially a good alternative, if you have cleaned the original lube off your switches and you are left with no other choice.

The third lube, the Nyogel 767A, is the one that I am having high hopes for and I am betting my money on. It has the same base oil (polyalfaolefin or PAO) as OKS 477 and the same thickener (silica), BUT is even more viscous, very viscous in fact, close to 50,000 cSt at 25c. Which, if I have made my calculations right, it will be almost as viscous as the original.

And as the OKS 477 actually performed "good" in all areas (no sound alteration, sliding got a lot smoother, feeling got closer to the original etc) and considering that it has a lower viscosity, then this means that Nyogel 767A, with its higher viscosity, is becoming more probable to be the lube that we search for. The lube that can finally be used in place of the original. This is why I got excited, because OKS 447 proved to be in the right direction, being so good by itself, and that raised my expectations.

But until I get my hands on the Nyogel, I can't say for sure and this is why I didn't want to reveal the name of the OKS so soon. I don't want to hype OKS 477 IF nyogel turns out to be "the one". If it turns out to be garbage, then I guess OKS 477 would be top of the hill for now.

So to summarise: The only thing I know for certain right now, is that OKS 477 is a good lube for Blue and Orange SKCM switches, that mimics, up to a point, the original. It certainly improves it and it does make it smoother, but it needs to be even more viscous though. And that is what I hope Nyogel 767A will be and will turn out to be a great OG lube replacement.

Ok so now you know, I hope this will ease your impatience a little.

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Lynx_Carpathica

03 Jan 2021, 00:59

Lynx_Carpathica wrote:
02 Jan 2021, 13:44
Dunno... Some plastic prytool. It's 3 yrs old but haven't broken yet. So that's neat.
Datecode inside slider: 5C, top: 26N
9C, 18A

Branded top
Seems to be shiny, like white alps. Maybe that's the reason why doesn't it feel like crap after I wiped it down completely.
Just some more info:
-FCC ID: BCGM3501
-Ser NO:AL1080RLM3501Z
-Bottom-right text: 825-2031-A
-Date code: '89
-ISO Layout

mindgame

03 Jan 2021, 18:51

767A actually is a dampening grease, aviasim gamers use it for HOTAS. :)

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NeK

03 Jan 2021, 21:20

mindgame wrote:
03 Jan 2021, 18:51
767A actually is a dampening grease, aviasim gamers use it for HOTAS. :)
Yeap, they use it on joysticks and seems that is great for that. Precisely because of its dampening effect is why I think it might do the trick.

Btw damping greases, are just highly viscous versions of regular ones. Just marketing gimmick.

mindgame

03 Jan 2021, 21:27

NeK wrote:
03 Jan 2021, 21:20
mindgame wrote:
03 Jan 2021, 18:51
767A actually is a dampening grease, aviasim gamers use it for HOTAS. :)
Yeap, they use it on joysticks and seems that is great for that. Precisely because of its dampening effect is why I think it might do the trick.

Btw damping greases, are just highly viscous versions of regular ones. Just marketing gimmick.
I have high viscous grease (perhaps grade 3 or higher) containing PFPE oil with Silica thickener. Made in Russia. Removes binding almost at all on used switches. But smoothness not great. Will check with good ones.

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NeK

03 Jan 2021, 21:37

In Russia greases use you as lubricant. /s

The NLGI is not really about viscosity, is about how stiff (the consistency of) the thickener is, viscosity is how viscous the base oil is. (PFPE in your case).

Can you find its TDS? It seems interesting

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NeK

03 Jan 2021, 21:40

Btw one more lube that I have in mind to try, is the Nyogel 774VH. But it is very expensive, like 80 euros per tube or something. Does anyone perhaps have some?

mindgame

04 Jan 2021, 01:48

NeK wrote:
03 Jan 2021, 21:37
In Russia greases use you as lubricant. /s

The NLGI is not really about viscosity, is about how stiff (the consistency of) the thickener is, viscosity is how viscous the base oil is. (PFPE in your case).

Can you find its TDS? It seems interesting
:) Yep, sry, i mean it's stiff.
As u know, there's several base oil types - mineral, PAO, PFPE, silicone oil, alkylbenzene, polyglycolic, various esters etc.
So, PFPE by nature cannot have be so viscous as PAO: ~3500-5000 cSt maximum at 20'C, and ~2000 cSt at 40'C
Nyogel 767A PAO base oil has typical measured kinematic viscosity ~ 28000 cSt at 40'C, and ~50000 at 25'C as u said.
Russian PFPE grease base oil kinematic viscosity is ~ 300 cSt at 20'C. It's interesting because it has similar consistency and same thickener type (silica).
Maybe worth to compare with 767A to help with answer the question "is it all about viscosity?"

shallot

08 Jan 2021, 11:39

I've ordered some OKS 477 as it was dirt cheap and I'm not really sold on Nyogel 760 or 767A. It was less than half the price of 760 or 767A for almost double the amount. Will report back, I have a batch of very scratchy greens which responded okay to a baggie of Threebond silicone grease I got off my mate but not in any significant kind of 'wow!' factor way.

This is why I wanted to know, by the way. I'm not that bothered about finding the perfect original alps lube replica, one that's decent enough to do a good job and reasonably cheap is more than enough for me.

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NeK

08 Jan 2021, 16:35

Ok would love to hear your experience with it.

Do you have any other lube to compare it with?
Last edited by NeK on 08 Jan 2021, 16:45, edited 1 time in total.

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NeK

08 Jan 2021, 16:43

mindgame wrote:
04 Jan 2021, 01:48
NeK wrote:
03 Jan 2021, 21:37
In Russia greases use you as lubricant. /s

The NLGI is not really about viscosity, is about how stiff (the consistency of) the thickener is, viscosity is how viscous the base oil is. (PFPE in your case).

Can you find its TDS? It seems interesting
:) Yep, sry, i mean it's stiff.
As u know, there's several base oil types - mineral, PAO, PFPE, silicone oil, alkylbenzene, polyglycolic, various esters etc.
So, PFPE by nature cannot have be so viscous as PAO: ~3500-5000 cSt maximum at 20'C, and ~2000 cSt at 40'C
Nyogel 767A PAO base oil has typical measured kinematic viscosity ~ 28000 cSt at 40'C, and ~50000 at 25'C as u said.
Russian PFPE grease base oil kinematic viscosity is ~ 300 cSt at 20'C. It's interesting because it has similar consistency and same thickener type (silica).
Maybe worth to compare with 767A to help with answer the question "is it all about viscosity?"
Well, there is a weird thing that buffles me. The results that I got with OKS 477 and OKS 1110 is that the later claims to have a higher viscosity base oil, however the 477 was the one that actually did have a positive effect. Why is that? Well, they both have the same consistency (NLGI 3) and the same thickener (silica), so their real difference is in the type of their base oil. 477 is PAO whereas the 1110 is Silicon Oil. So it seems the PAO somehow works better. maybe it is made of heavier molecular structure? I dont know.

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Lynx_Carpathica

08 Jan 2021, 17:50

Hey guys, I'd like to ask you to test theese lubes on SKCM Whites as well. They are widely available, tho quite of them are suboptimal. I think we'd all benefit from knowing what'd happen if you lube them with theese crazy expensive greases/oils.

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Polecat

08 Jan 2021, 17:51

Are you sure viscosity is really a good thing? As in thicker is better? Ever try running in molasses? Slowing down the response of switches doesn't sound like such a good thing to me.

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NeK

08 Jan 2021, 18:24

Thick viscosity is necessary to eliminate the stick-slip while sliding, in accordance with the paper I have mentioned, so I accordingly I assume (not *sure*) that yes, the thicker the better. Also all the good condition blue alps boards, especially 10/10 one that I have, have a very viscous and stiff feeling, resulting also in a dampened (i.e. a tiny bit slower than without) sliding.

The response is not slower enough to make any difference, but there is a definite dampening going on.

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Lynx_Carpathica

08 Jan 2021, 18:47

Noob question, sorry about it: does viscosity relate to film strenght?

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Lynx_Carpathica

12 Jan 2021, 12:33

I'm pretty sure I have found lube on OA2 Clones as well. Same kind of deal, as I found on my SKCM Ivory.

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