Wiki Hackaton

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

01 Feb 2019, 20:05

I believe we need to work a little on the wiki. It's a great resource and it deserves better.

There are really too many drafts and stubs. Some info is badly structured and/or categorized. There's no uniformity in language (UK/US), measurements, currencies, prices, etc.

I also feel some sections are redundant or impossible to maintain (group buys).

The "Guides" are nice resources but they all need work and that "draft document" removed. Imho some data also needs to go (like "$$ value" in some keyboards).

The homepage needs some thoughts too with a better presentation of the content.

My idea would be to start talking here about all the required work, define clear standards and nice templates and then run a sort of "hackaton month" to give new energy to the wiki.

We could possibly add prizes to spice it up, both for random and top contributors.

Please share your ideas, suggestions, opinions!

User avatar
TheInverseKey

01 Feb 2019, 20:13

As I am now adding a lot more to the Wiki here are some things that I came across:
  • Standardized page layout for each board or version
  • Reorganized categories that have duplicated data/entries
  • Add converter section in standard page layout
  • Add Todo section of information that is missing from pages

User avatar
Myoth

01 Feb 2019, 20:47

  • re-organize the fuck out of overlapping pages, mainly keyboard series (the Alps bigfoot one is a mess)
  • template for certain typical pages like keyboard, switch
  • upgrade somehow the uploader, it's a PITA to use and isn't noob-friendly IMO

Findecanor

01 Feb 2019, 22:11

matt3o wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:05
There are really too many drafts and stubs.
Sometimes a stub is better than no mention at all. You could come across something you didn't know exist and search for more information on your own.

For instance, Enthusiast vendors is a category where just getting the name or URL of a company to check out could be valuable.
matt3o wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:05
Imho some data also needs to go (like "$$ value" in some keyboards).
Template:Infobox dkeyboard has "price".
That is not supposed to be current value, but supposed to be MSRP on launch. It could serve a rough indicator of whether it was an expensive or cheap keyboard at the time.

Myself, I enter whatever currency I can find when I write the page, and that is often either $ or €. I think no other currency should be entered.
It does not hurt to keep it, but documentation about it is lacking. And yes, the field should have had a more fitting name to begin with but it is too late.
matt3o wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:05
There's no uniformity in language (UK/US)
When discussing this a few years ago, we came to the consensus that an article could be in either but that we should attempt to not have both in the same article.
Myself, I try to use British English, because ... we are in Europe.
Edit: The Wiki does have among its HTTP headers "content-language: en-GB".

Many computers systems are set to US English by default though (if not as default, then as its default English after another primary language setting).
I believe web browsers used to set language for spelling-correction automatically to language in the HTTP header, but I am not sure if all major browsers still honour that.
TheInverseKey wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:13
  • Reorganized categories that have duplicated data/entries
What do you mean exactly?

There are some articles for keyboards and switches where multiple variations are listed in the same article, but each variation has a redirect page to that article.
Here there would be some duplicity where both a redirect and the main article are in a category.

Ideally, we would want only the redirect to be in each category's list but we still want the article itself to have links to each category — but that is not how categories work. People navigate only to redirects, never from them.
I don't have a good solution to that. Do you have a suggestion?

Or did you mean something else?
Please link to an example.
TheInverseKey wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:13
  • Add Todo section of information that is missing from pages
The TODO tag has been used for that. But can it be edited in the visual editor?

User avatar
TheInverseKey

01 Feb 2019, 22:26

Findecanor wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:11
TheInverseKey wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:13
  • Reorganized categories that have duplicated data/entries
What do you mean exactly?

There are some articles for keyboards and switches where multiple variations are listed in the same article, but each variation has a redirect page to that article.
Here there would be some duplicity where both a redirect and the main article are in a category.

Ideally, we would want only the redirect to be in each category's list but we still want the article itself to have links to each category — but that is not how categories work. People navigate only to redirects, never from them.
I don't have a good solution to that. Do you have a suggestion?

Or did you mean something else?
Please link to an example.
Look at the RT101 sections they are a mess and need to be consolidated. Personally, I think each model should have it's own page.
wiki/Category:Keyboards_with_NMB_switches
TheInverseKey wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:13
  • Add Todo section of information that is missing from pages
Findecanor wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:11
The TODO tag has been used for that. But can it be edited in the visual editor?
No it cannot be edited in the visual editor only source.

Findecanor

01 Feb 2019, 22:42

TheInverseKey wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:26
Look at the RT101 sections they are a mess and need to be consolidated. Personally, I think each model should have it's own page.
wiki/Category:Keyboards_with_NMB_switches
Indeed those pages are a mess, but only someone who knows specifically about NMB keyboard models could straighten that out...

Ideally, each keyboard should have its own article, but before anyone has written a page, it should have its own redirect.
TheInverseKey wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:13
  • Add Todo section of information that is missing from pages
Findecanor wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:11
The TODO tag has been used for that. But can it be edited in the visual editor?
No it cannot be edited in the visual editor only source.
[/quote]
I checked myself now. "TODO photo" can be edited or deleted, but not added...
The benefit of having it as a tag is that it automatically adds the page to a category of pages that require additional work.
Maybe the different TODO tags could be added to the visual editor's tool bar somewhere.

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

02 Feb 2019, 09:23

stubs are fine, would be nice to expand them anyway.

The value of the keyboard is a field that has no sense. It is hard to establish and harder to keep updated. The cost of the keyboard when it was released is an important parameter on the other hand.

All 7bit group buys need to be organized in multiple pages because they are killing the server.

Most of the guides need review.

I also saw many dead external links, that is natural, but maybe we could by default link to internet archive.

Many topics could be organized in sub-pages/categories while I feel sometimes there are too many (brands > Sunrex > Sunrex OEM > ...).

Sometimes I see what seems duplicated categories. Like

Code: Select all

[[Category:NMB keyboards]]
[[Category:Keyboards with NMB switches]]
Maybe it is used internally for different kind of lists, I haven't checked honestly, and it's not actually a big deal.

We also have some duplicate contents that need to be consolidated (eg: Novelty and Artisan keycaps).

I see a lot of work to do. I don't even know where to start from :D

User avatar
Muirium
µ

02 Feb 2019, 11:32

Original price and “modern” price at a specified date are quite worth having, I think. Have them in the template but make them well behaved if left blank. Some boards started with similar prices and wound up very differently prized. And even a decade out of date value will tell you something if it’s the first time you’ve ever looked one up, so long as it is dated.

The idea of using English English for wiki pages but enforcing USD or EUR for values does of course amuse me!

My real trouble with wikis is that I can’t sensibly contribute to them. My recall is always vague on specifics and better suited to stories, especially with jokes along the way. I am Non Neutral Point of View personified, implying things left right and centre without even realising that’s what I’m saying, even if (I think) they’re right. A good part of my communication style is Unknown Knowns…

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

02 Feb 2019, 11:41

Muirium wrote:
02 Feb 2019, 11:32
Original price and “modern” price at a specified date are quite worth having,
it a value impossible to maintain and also very hard to find. I see people buying standard Model M at $100+ on ebay while I find them free at the local junkyard.
Muirium wrote:
02 Feb 2019, 11:32
The idea of using English English for wiki pages but enforcing USD or EUR for values does of course amuse me!
Most keyboards even from China/Taiwan are listed in USD so it's generally easier to find the USD value. Probably the best would be to just use the currency of the originating country. Like for Topre would be Yen, for GMK Euro, the vast majority would be USD.

User avatar
TheInverseKey

03 Feb 2019, 05:36

Findecanor wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:42
TheInverseKey wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 22:26
Look at the RT101 sections they are a mess and need to be consolidated. Personally, I think each model should have it's own page.
wiki/Category:Keyboards_with_NMB_switches
Indeed those pages are a mess, but only someone who knows specifically about NMB keyboard models could straighten that out...

Ideally, each keyboard should have its own article, but before anyone has written a page, it should have its own redirect.
TheInverseKey wrote:
01 Feb 2019, 20:13
  • Add Todo section of information that is missing from pages
No it cannot be edited in the visual editor only source.
I checked myself now. "TODO photo" can be edited or deleted, but not added...
The benefit of having it as a tag is that it automatically adds the page to a category of pages that require additional work.
Maybe the different TODO tags could be added to the visual editor's tool bar somewhere.

I will take on the task hopefully soon. Just wanted to point it out and make sure that we had an example of something that needs to be consolidated.

Slom

03 Feb 2019, 11:02

matt3o wrote:
02 Feb 2019, 09:23

Sometimes I see what seems duplicated categories. Like

Code: Select all

[[Category:NMB keyboards]]
[[Category:Keyboards with NMB switches]]
Maybe it is used internally for different kind of lists, I haven't checked honestly, and it's not actually a big deal.
[[Category:Symbolics keyboards]] with [[Category:Keyboards with NMB switches]]
wiki/Symbolics_365407

[[Category:NMB keyboards]] with [[Category:Keyboards with NMB switches]]
wiki/NMB_RT-100/RT-8200_series

Sometimes the categories are in other categories as well:

wiki/Cherry_G80-1000: [[Category:Cherry_G80_series]] => [[Category:Cherry_keyboards]]

If you want that tree collapsed, you just look for [[Category:List of all Cherry keyboards]]

wiki/Chyron_Duet: [[Category:Keyboards with Cherry MX Clear switches]] => [[Category:Keyboards with Cherry MX switches]] => [[Category:Keyboards with Cherry switches]]

That last one is maybe a bit overkill, the Chyron Duet is the only keyboard in that category. And there is no corresponding [[Category:List of all Keyboards with Cherry switches]].

And then there is also the distinction between brand an OEM:
wiki/Xerox_Star_low-profile_keyboard is [[Category:Xerox keyboards]] and [[Category:Cherry OEM keyboards]]

Findecanor

03 Feb 2019, 13:09

I do think that lists with collapsed trees is a bit overkill, and that we should avoid creating new ones.

There are more keyboards than Chyron Duet that came only in Cherry MX Clear (as far as people know), but I think subcategorising "Keyboards with Cherry MX switches" may have been a bit unnecessary in the first place.

User avatar
TheInverseKey

04 Feb 2019, 23:16

So I just came across this while trying to edit the pictures in the gallery section.

If the gallery already exists then you don't have the ability in the visual editor to add additional pictures but rather only have the option to search for them.
Spoiler:
2019-02-04 17_11_16-Editing ADDS ASCII - Deskthority wiki.png
2019-02-04 17_11_16-Editing ADDS ASCII - Deskthority wiki.png (288.19 KiB) Viewed 1728 times
Is there a way to make the visual editor upload pictures after the gallery has been created?

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

04 Feb 2019, 23:43

TheInverseKey wrote:
04 Feb 2019, 23:16
Is there a way to make the visual editor upload pictures after the gallery has been created?
I have to check on that, it could be just a permissions issue. I'm not very familiar with mediawiki, maybe someone more experienced could chime in

User avatar
webwit
Wild Duck

05 Feb 2019, 00:17

Apparently it's just a shit gallery editor:
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Vis ... _galleries
The gallery editor is currently a simple box that allows you to edit existing galleries using wikitext markup. To add a new image to an existing gallery, type the file name, followed by a bar (|) and the caption for that image. You must put each image in the gallery on its own line. You can also edit this list to remove or rearrange images or to change captions.
I tried that, it works, but it's not like press a button to browse for an image and add that to the gallery.

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

05 Feb 2019, 00:27

sometimes it's amazing how wikipedia can run on such software

User avatar
TheInverseKey

05 Feb 2019, 02:23

matt3o wrote:
05 Feb 2019, 00:27
sometimes it's amazing how wikipedia can run on such software
You and me both.

User avatar
TheInverseKey

05 Feb 2019, 03:01

So if we are going to start to standardize keyboard posts on the Wiki I think that there needs to be as standard layout for a each single keyboard. Below is the code that I think should be a decent start. Please comment if you think that there should be something included in a standard layout/post.

Code: Select all


{{TODO}}
{{stub}}

{{infobox dkeyboard
| image name   = 
| fcc          = 
| pn           = 
| model        = 
| branding     = 
| manufacturer = 
| switch       = 
| layouts      = 
| features     = 
| interface    = 
| rollover     = 
| weight       = 
}}

==Summary==
//Summary of the keyboard and it's features

==Construction==

//What is the build quality like?

==Variations==

//If there are any?

==Protocols==
//Protocols that they keyboard speaks if they are known

==Gallery==
//Pictures of the keyboard
	
<gallery widths=250 heights=187>

</gallery>
==Converter==

//If the keyboard needs a special converter besides XT/AT to USB. Mostly teensy related  

==References==

<references />



User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

05 Feb 2019, 07:59

what about dimensions and introductory price?

User avatar
Myoth

05 Feb 2019, 11:56

matt3o wrote:
05 Feb 2019, 07:59
what about dimensions and introductory price?
I don't feel like introductory price is very necessary, it'll be a pain to find, and it's adding very little to the knowledge of the keyboard.

Findecanor

05 Feb 2019, 13:23

• Infobox fields (such as "price") are optional. If you leave one blank, it will not be displayed.
• Protocol is already covered by the "interface" field in the infobox.
• The template needs categories.

In the previous thread last year, I offered to write the templates, but matt3o stopped me because he wanted to try out a plugin (?). What happened with that?

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

05 Feb 2019, 14:12

Findecanor wrote:
05 Feb 2019, 13:23
In the previous thread last year, I offered to write the templates, but matt3o stopped me because he wanted to try out a plugin (?). What happened with that?
not a plugin, it's just that I had to upgrade the mediawiki first and I didn't know if something changed in the templates. Now everything is up to date. go ahead be my guest!

User avatar
TheInverseKey

05 Feb 2019, 16:27

Findecanor wrote:
05 Feb 2019, 13:23
• Infobox fields (such as "price") are optional. If you leave one blank, it will not be displayed.
• Protocol is already covered by the "interface" field in the infobox.
• The template needs categories.

In the previous thread last year, I offered to write the templates, but matt3o stopped me because he wanted to try out a plugin (?). What happened with that?
Protocol is somewhat covered by the info box but if some boards require a converter that needs to be figured out then I think that this section is appropriate.

Example: wiki/ADDS_ASCII

If we could do a template that the user has to follow that would be the goal and I think it would take more investigating to get a clear answer. As for categories what do you have in mind?

Findecanor

10 Feb 2019, 12:39

Something else I have noticed in the Wiki is that many pages are marked as "Stub" but could be unmarked as such because they contain a reasonable amount of information.
TheInverseKey wrote:
05 Feb 2019, 16:27
As for categories what do you have in mind?
Hmm. If we don't have forms, and we do have a visual editor where we can't have comments within <!-- --> then we would need a help text on the side, somehow for which types of categories that would be the most appropriate.

For example, a keyboard should be in List of all keyboards, and then in:
• by brand
• by switch
• by type/property: Office/Gamer, Backlit, Tenkeyless/Compact, Vintage/Contemporary

Maybe instead of just a bare template for each common type of article, maybe it would be best to have a general help article with the template embedded inside it for the article creator to cut and paste.

User avatar
Hypersphere

10 Feb 2019, 21:01

I think that the Wiki is (or seems to be) too difficult to use. This is deterring people from making new additions to the Wiki or editing the ones already present.

Would it be possible to make the Wiki much more user-friendly and/or to create a tutorial explaining how to make additions and revisions?

User avatar
matt3o
-[°_°]-

11 Feb 2019, 11:11

Hypersphere wrote:
10 Feb 2019, 21:01
I think that the Wiki is (or seems to be) too difficult to use. This is deterring people from making new additions to the Wiki or editing the ones already present.

Would it be possible to make the Wiki much more user-friendly and/or to create a tutorial explaining how to make additions and revisions?
that is probably true, I installed the visual editor that is the best thing I could do for usability.

I feel many people don't feel "adequate" and experienced enough to post updates or new pages. What I feel it really lacks is a bit of uniformity in the presentation and a good "flow" from one topic to another.

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